**Official** English Football Season 2024/25

[sledger]

A lot of big target men (Duncan Ferguson being the perfect example) were actually comically bad goalscorers. I'm pretty sure if you asked most Premier League centre halves of his era, he'd be up there in the top 2 or 3 nightmare opponents purely because of the physical battle you'd have to go through for 90 minutes. I'm pretty sure he'd be nowhere near the consideration if the question was 'who were you afraid of as a match winner.'

Yeah exactly.

One of my favourite comical football memories is Ruud Gullit becoming manager of Newcastle, promising "s-exy football", and then immediately signing "Big Dunc".

 

[SeamUp]

I mean the reason why teams don't play with a big man/little man combo up top (often with two traditional wingers) systems is because set ups like that necessarily lead to very predictable and one dimensional (i.e., easy for good teams to defend against) styles of play.

Also trying to control the ball more and have an extra man in midfield.

I'm not against it by the way. But different styles have maybe changed the style of the target man but seeing Maguire being thrown on late and trying to get the ball in the box and force the issue did make a throw back of the target man style that has sort of gone out the window in terms of numbers.

Remember Kevin Davies and Allardyce at Bolton. So under-rated their qualities in that team but they had some old school clout around which is remembered more I guess.

 

[SeamUp]

Another thing is lots of centre-backs fall apart now with any aerially strong Centre-Forward.

 

[SeamUp]

A lot of big target men (Duncan Ferguson being the perfect example) were actually comically bad goalscorers. I'm pretty sure if you asked most Premier League centre halves of his era, he'd be up there in the top 2 or 3 nightmare opponents purely because of the physical battle you'd have to go through for 90 minutes. I'm pretty sure he'd be nowhere near the consideration if the question was 'who were you afraid of as a match winner.'

Funnily enough was watching the Overlap with Sol Campbell and he believed being a CB was harder in his time with having to deal with class CFs (for whatever reason of style or goal threat) but also those Duncan Ferguson types which he name dropped.

You had different problems to deal with that you see less of now was just as much what he was saying.

 

[sledger]

Another thing is lots of centre-backs fall apart now with any aerially strong Centre-Forward.

lol what

 

[SeamUp]

lol what

Don't you think so ? Fair enough.

 

[Molehill]

Don't you think so ? Fair enough.

I think there's an element of truth in it. Murillo in particular is not the biggest and struggled as soon as Maguire appeared. If Amorim had made that change sooner he may well have found an equaliser.

 

[Skipper Pup]

Read on twitter real madrid want klopp to replace ancelotti. Wow that news to me. thought they would go to xabi alonso. @Skipper Pup mate wonder how our co fans would react if klopp takes over madrid

Honestly, I don't know. It would go against a lot of what Klopp has said in the past but it wouldn't surprise me either. Alonso stayed a season too long at Leverkusen and cracks are appearing in his candidacy for that role.

Anyway, I've lost a bit of interest in all things LFC since the Trent stuff was all but confirmed. Too much other stuff going on in life and there's no point getting upset with our ownership anymore, it is what it is.

I think the club and our fans have far bigger things to worry about than what Klopp does. Right now I prefer to just focus on celebrating this league title because at this rate there won't be another for a while.

 

[Uppercut]

I think the trend of CBs getting weaker in the air reversed a long time ago too. At Barcelona Pep was converting short DMs to CB, now he's signing massive CBs and converting them to full backs.

It really struck me when I was watching Luis Enrique's PSG against Liverpool, how that style has become rare again. It felt in 2012 like everyone was going to move towards these setups full of small, agile, highly technical players. Now when you see a team play that way it stands out almost as much as it did when Barca did it.

 

[Skipper Pup]

I think a lot of the "there aren't any target men" type perceptions are actually mistaken in the sense that these players are there, it's just that the role has changed.

A bit like Goalkeepers really. They still exist, it's just that they have to actually be good at football these days, rather than just being the big strong bloke who heads it and kicks people (e.g., Duncan Ferguson).

Well said. There are a of lot them still around European football - Gyokores, Boniface, Sorloth, Budimir, Lukaku, Thuram, Dovbyk, Vlahovic, Ekitike, Schick, Guirassy, Sesko etc.

Even Southampton threw on an absolute goliath against us, Onuachu.

They are relatively uncommon in the prem at the moment. If I had to guess why I think its to do with the physicality/athleticism of the modern CB. You need more than just height and power if you want to succeed against the likes of VVD, Konate, Gabriel, Botman, Dias etc.

 

[Skipper Pup]

I think the trend of CBs getting weaker in the air reversed a long time ago too. At Barcelona Pep was converting short DMs to CB, now he's signing massive CBs and converting them to full backs.

It really struck me when I was watching Luis Enrique's PSG against Liverpool, how that style has become rare again. It felt in 2012 like everyone was going to move towards these setups full of small, agile, highly technical players. Now when you see a team play that way it stands out almost as much as it did when Barca did it.

Funnily enough we play almost the same style they just did it a lot better

 

[Furball]

Funnily enough was watching the Overlap with Sol Campbell and he believed being a CB was harder in his time with having to deal with class CFs (for whatever reason of style or goal threat) but also those Duncan Ferguson types which he name dropped.

You had different problems to deal with that you see less of now was just as much what he was saying.

Campbell wouldn't have had to deal with the sort of pressing modern centre halves deal with.

 

[andruid]

It's crazy how having target men or a striker who can score with his head seems to have gone out of fashion thanks to Barcelona and Pep. Or at least there are so few (we have one in Wood).

Wood leading the line for Forrest should have a hell of a lot more dad jokes.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Honestly, I don't know. It would go against a lot of what Klopp has said in the past but it wouldn't surprise me either. Alonso stayed a season too long at Leverkusen and cracks are appearing in his candidacy for that role.

Anyway, I've lost a bit of interest in all things LFC since the Trent stuff was all but confirmed. Too much other stuff going on in life and there's no point getting upset with our ownership anymore, it is what it is.

I think the club and our fans have far bigger things to worry about than what Klopp does. Right now I prefer to just focus on celebrating this league title because at this rate there won't be another for a while.

Agree with you. heartbroken that trent is leaving along with my fav salah and vvd. Hope slot rebuilds squad in couple of years. Till then let me enjoy our pl tittle win

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I would have said it went out of fashion for a while, but now it's been back for some time. The leading world strikers are Haaland, Kane, Lewandowski, then maybe someone like Isak. They're all excellent in the air. Real Madrid are playing Mbappe there, but now he's the one that feels like an outlier - all of the noise was that he felt out of position there and is having to adapt.

Don't disagree with your general point but Haaland is actually pretty **** in the air, at least with his head.

 

[Skipper Pup]

What is going on with the refs... honestly?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

What is going on with the refs... honestly?

View attachment 46399

Add in an offside for the goal and it's bizarre...

How can that not be offside???

 

[Skipper Pup]

Add in an offside for the goal and it's bizarre...

How can that not be offside???

Diaz was passive when Tarkowski played at the ball. Once Garner took possession Diaz had returned to an onside position.

That's always been the rule. Not even remotely controversial... maybe unless you're an Arsenal fan.

Edit: will add that ref was awful all game. I just hate dangerous tackles like that, no excuse for it not to be a red with VAR. The modern interpretation of 'reckless' is basically any situation where tackler isn't in control or "off his feet" and makes studs up contact above the ankle - it hits basically every criteria.

If Macca's studs are planted there it is likely a broken leg but we really shouldn't need to see that outcome to warrant that decision.

 

[Uppercut]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I thought it was a great decision not to send him off. There's nothing particularly dangerous about the technique he uses - he just plants his left leg and clears the ball cleanly with his right. His right catches MacAllister on the follow through at an awkward angle, but only because MacAllister positions himself right in the firing line of the clearance. When you see the still photo you get the impression of a completely different challenge to what Tarkowski actually did.

Usually these days the VAR ***** find the worst possible angle, cut out the preceding context, and show it to the ref slowed down to make it look far worse than it is. In old money most refs aren't even giving a foul.

 

[Furball]

What is going on with the refs... honestly?

View attachment 46399

A still photo tells us nothing about the tackle.