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***Official*** English Football Season 2020-21

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Remember when the Arse won at Old Trafford? How long ago it seems now...
Partey had a stormer that game. Him fully fit will make an enormous difference. Will probably buy or try to buy a creative midfielder in January and hope it's enough to keep us afloat.

However some of the leaks out of the club suggest a toxic dressing room and our higher ups are rather bad at what they do so **** knows what will happen.
 

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Remember when the Arse won at Old Trafford? How long ago it seems now...
Said at the time I thought Arsenal were quite poor in that game. Had lots of possession against a flaky defence and created nothing but a gifted penalty. United kinda covered it up by being even worse, but the warning signs were there.
 

JOJOXI

International Captain
It's the old excuses/arseholes thing, isn't it?

We've all got them but very few bear up to close examination.
What are your thoughts on Arsenal's squad over say the next 18 months? Not an Arsenal fan but my thoughts vary from how many of these players get into a top 10 side to a fully fit and available squad and Arsenal's XI doesn't look that bad - something like the following until the summer?

Leno; Maitland-Niles, Saliba, Gabriel, Tierney; Partey, Ceballos/Xhaka, Ozil; Pepe, Lacazette, Aubameyang

I don't think that is top 4 quality but comfortably top 7/8 - whenever I've seen Maitland-Niles he seems decent, not sure where Saka fits? - perhaps instead of Lacazette with Aubameyang down the middle. Perhaps missing a creative midfielder Arteta trusts - I can't really see Ceballos and Ozil ever starting in the same PL team for the rest of this season under Arteta. I am a fan of Willian so wouldn't be against him coming in for Pepe although seems Arsenal fans aren't delighted with him.
 

JOJOXI

International Captain
Lol I actually quoted the wrong BoyBrumby post I just realised but pish in terms of a club of Arsenal's side or pish more generally? I'd be surprised if many of these players especially in strongest XI don't end up playing European football at least at Europa League level a few times in their career (if/when they leave Arsenal.)
 

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Emery occasionally picked sides a bit like JOJO’s XI and they had no shape when they didn’t have the ball. Arteta has so far stuck to sides that make tactical sense, even when that means taking a hit on quality. Neither really get Arsenal where they want to be.

On current quality it’s worse than the squads at the other ‘top 6’ clubs and I’m taking the Leicester and Wolves squads over it. Maybe Everton too. Southampton have a worse squad but a very good manager. Top half and trending in the right direction would be a decent head coach performance, though if Arteta had a hand in the dodgy summer window, that complicates things.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I don't think we have a world beating squad or anything, but the cattle available suggest we should be higher than ****ing 15th.

Part of me can't quite shake off the suspicion Aubameyang has been carrying us pretty much since he arrived and when he went off the boil slightly (maybe not coincidentally after he signed a massive new deal) we've tanked hard.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Mostly because the other big teams are weaker too this year. United aren’t as bad as some coverage suggested, but they still bombed out of the Champions League in the group stages.

It was one of quite a few media narratives that took hold far too early in the season. Mourinho is back, Chelsea are legit, etc. Then the table changed very quickly, as it always does at this time of year, and they haven’t really found new stories to match it.
Always the same with Jose though isn't it, which is why I didn't miss him whilst he's away, not just because of his shitty anti-football.

People forget with Man U after winning some minor cups, he got off to a good start next season and the media had practically given United the title. Who knows how the Spurs thing will go, it is a transitional time for a few teams, and Liverpool still have a ton of key injuries, he'll get a window, but then so will everyone else.

Yet, he's box office clearly and the way they've switched from Jose is a miserable guy with an outdated philosophy, to he's back being hilarious and has is mojo back, almost seamlessly has been something to see, but it's a theme with him.

I suggest the reality is somewhere in-between, never as bad as made out, not yet as good as made out, and he hasn't really been that funny since the early days, humour is subjective though...
 

JOJOXI

International Captain
Emery occasionally picked sides a bit like JOJO’s XI and they had no shape when they didn’t have the ball. Arteta has so far stuck to sides that make tactical sense, even when that means taking a hit on quality. Neither really get Arsenal where they want to be.

On current quality it’s worse than the squads at the other ‘top 6’ clubs and I’m taking the Leicester and Wolves squads over it. Maybe Everton too. Southampton have a worse squad but a very good manager. Top half and trending in the right direction would be a decent head coach performance, though if Arteta had a hand in the dodgy summer window, that complicates things.
I think Ozil could fit in but it is hard to see him fitting in with Ceballos, from afar it seems Arteta has more trust defensively with Xhaka - the only reason I put Xhaka/Ceballos as if I was picking one of those 2 solely on ability I'd go for Ceballos easily. I do think the rest of the side fits in reasonably well though I think. I'd agree its worse then the rest of the top 6 and worse then Leicester and probably Everton - I'm not so sure about Wolves - I do think the manager doesn't get the credit deserved from some at Wolves although I'm not a Wolves fan - I've seen a growing Nuno Out trend on Twitter. But if they finish below top 5, Leicester and Everton that is still 8th and I personally think there is enough in that squad that they should finish above Wolves and Arsenal although Nuno and Hassenhuttl deserve credit.

If Saliba slots in well when he eventually plays I think Arsenal's starting CBs are decent - I rate Gabriel and Fofana has done well at Leicester and Saliba and Fofana were on a similar development trajectory. Although of course its not just ability but personality, adaptability that decides if a player will do well in a foreign league. I think Maitland-Niles is decent if nothing more and Tierney good. Leno and Aubameyang have been their best players over last 18 months. I do think their front 3 would do better under a more fluent system too. I think one signing missing for them to become a top 6 challenger is probably a quality CM who can do the defensive side of the game and extend Ceballos loan/get him permanently. The new CM probably a significant upgrade both offensively and defensively to Xhaka - I guess the big question is who fits that remit who would be willing to join Arsenal?

After that I think look at improving the depth as you add Saliba, a new CM and you are an injury away from Xhaka/Elneny and Holding/Luiz again.


I don't think we have a world beating squad or anything, but the cattle available suggest we should be higher than ****ing 15th.

Part of me can't quite shake off the suspicion Aubameyang has been carrying us pretty much since he arrived and when he went off the boil slightly (maybe not coincidentally after he signed a massive new deal) we've tanked hard.
Yeah you are certainly off the rest of the 'top 6' sides but yep would agree you should be doing better then 15th - I think the first 7 games were a decent model for you - the 3 games you lost Leicester, Man City, Liverpool are just better sides then you regardless of coaching/setup in my view and you got a win v Utd - I'd probably give more credit to Arsenal for that win then many on here. That Aston Villa defeat was massively damaging immediately after - the rest of the results kind of make sense, Spurs winning no surprise, Everton probably slightly better right now too and Wolves are a solid side, you've got a good record v Burnley but they are the sort of side that can easily beat you if you aren't at 100%. To never even really look like beating Villa though is very poor.
 

JOJOXI

International Captain
Always the same with Jose though isn't it, which is why I didn't miss him whilst he's away, not just because of his ****ty anti-football.

People forget with Man U after winning some minor cups, he got off to a good start next season and the media had practically given United the title. Who knows how the Spurs thing will go, it is a transitional time for a few teams, and Liverpool still have a ton of key injuries, he'll get a window, but then so will everyone else.

Yet, he's box office clearly and the way they've switched from Jose is a miserable guy with an outdated philosophy, to he's back being hilarious and has is mojo back, almost seamlessly has been something to see, but it's a theme with him.

I suggest the reality is somewhere in-between, never as bad as made out, not yet as good as made out, and he hasn't really been that funny since the early days, humour is subjective though...
I am a fan of Mourinho and do think he was under pressure way too early at Man Utd - I vividly recall listening to phone-in radio after the commentary of a 3-0 loss to Spurs leaving them with 3 pts from their first 3 games and the doom and gloom narrative already being set, I thought at the time and still do think it was way over the top for a manager who about 280-290 mins of PL football ago had got Man Utd 2nd in the league in his 2nd season. But yes probably more nuance needed - a few wins regardless of the manager doesn't suddenly mean they'll win the league although I think its understandable that people see Spurs as more of a title challenger given Mourinho has won titles and Pocchetino hasn't and a couple losses doesn't suddenly mean he's washed up especially given those losses were v Liverpool and Leicester. Big next 4 games for them though in the PL - the popular narrative may well be shaped by them - Wolves, Leeds, Villa on current form all sides that may cause issues, Fulham seem to be improving too, drop pts in more then 1 of those games and I expect you'll start to hear Mourinho out from Spurs fans.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I am a fan of Mourinho and do think he was under pressure way too early at Man Utd - I vividly recall listening to phone-in radio after the commentary of a 3-0 loss to Spurs leaving them with 3 pts from their first 3 games and the doom and gloom narrative already being set, I thought at the time and still do think it was way over the top for a manager who about 280-290 mins of PL football ago had got Man Utd 2nd in the league in his 2nd season. But yes probably more nuance needed - a few wins regardless of the manager doesn't suddenly mean they'll win the league although I think its understandable that people see Spurs as more of a title challenger given Mourinho has won titles and Pocchetino hasn't and a couple losses doesn't suddenly mean he's washed up especially given those losses were v Liverpool and Leicester. Big next 4 games for them though in the PL - the popular narrative may well be shaped by them - Wolves, Leeds, Villa on current form all sides that may cause issues, Fulham seem to be improving too, drop pts in more then 1 of those games and I expect you'll start to hear Mourinho out from Spurs fans.
Yes I guessed the way you carved up the stats in that Son/kane thing I asked for you were a fan, I think the simple answer was yes Poch did better when both were fit, but hey you did the work.

I'm not sure that it's remotely understandable to believe a manager who has apart from Porto (big aside but a long time ago) won things with the best resourced teams in his League will win the League with one that certainly isn't, would rather a coming manager who helped built the side, and played with flair myself, like umm Poch.

Gotta say I am ridiculously biased as I clearly despise him.
 

JOJOXI

International Captain
Yes I guessed the way you carved up the stats in that Son/kane thing I asked for you were a fan, I think the simple answer was yes Poch did better when both were fit, but hey you did the work.

I'm not sure that it's remotely understandable to believe a manager who has apart from Porto (big aside but a long time ago) won things with the best resourced teams in his League will win the League with one that certainly isn't, would rather a coming manager who helped built the side, and played with flair myself, like umm Poch.

Gotta say I am ridiculously biased as I clearly despise him.
Yeah I used Transfrmarket so in essence it was the way I was collecting the info anyway as they show each PL game played by each player and ones they were unused sub/not in squad/injured - was easier to just see the games where at least one of Son or Kane were injured/didn't feature in then minus those results from final table for that season and I do think it is worth seperating the 2 periods as there is a significant drop-off and Pocchetino's squad more recently is more comparable to situation Mourinho inherited - Pocchetino in his earlier seasons had a fully firing Dembele and Wanyama along with a fully firing Alli and Eriksen and a CB pairing who were a couple years younger. Pocchetino didn't have that in his latter years and eventually struggled enough that he was sacked. You would expect an upturn from Mourinho in the results when Son+Kane play as after all Pocchetino was sacked (rightly or wrongly).

I do also think there is a question of how much extra time Pocchetino's good work with Spurs should have won him - on form alone he got 40pts from their last 31 league games. As a comparison, Mourinho got 54pts from his final 31 league games with Man Utd. On the other hand Pocchetino was 90mins away from a Champions League win in that 18/19 season, win that and as long as relegation isn't a fear he probably can do almost what he likes as no one would've said Spurs to win a UCL in the next 15/20 years at least before Pocchetino joined I suspect.

A second key factor is how much you value style, I can't actually recall Spurs being that good to watch in the last few months of Pocchetino I watched but over the majority of his tenure there was no doubt they were a good team to watch - how much extra time that should buy a manager is another very subjective thing and will skew opinions significantly.

On Mourinho,he certainly tends to have bigger funds and better squads but he's not really been a position to win with a (comparatively) poorly resourced club for a long time either, he's at least done it whereas Pocchetino hasn't at all (I do think he will end up having a great career - I don't mean it as a dig at him) but I do think someone who has experience of winning the UCL with a comparatively 'smaller' side if even a long time ago and experience of winning the PL has more chance of winning the PL then someone who hasn't done either.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I don't think we have a world beating squad or anything, but the cattle available suggest we should be higher than ****ing 15th.

Part of me can't quite shake off the suspicion Aubameyang has been carrying us pretty much since he arrived and when he went off the boil slightly (maybe not coincidentally after he signed a massive new deal) we've tanked hard.
Pretty much the story of last season's FA Cup run. Basically be organised, defend well and get the ball to Aubameyang on the counter.
 

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