*Official* English Football Season 2015-16

[sledger]

Isn't there some sort of advantage rule for those types of infringements? If it's cynical and intentional, shouldn't they be getting carded?

Yes indeed, but see duffer's post above.

 

[sledger]

Haha, just realised that the house I am moving to at the weekend is literally about a 5 min drive from the Arsenal training ground.

 

[Uppercut]

Isn't there some sort of advantage rule for those types of infringements? If it's cynical and intentional, shouldn't they be getting carded?

Often it's worth taking a yellow card to stop the attack, and often you can foul for advantages that are small enough to get away with. Especially in the first 20 minutes, because there's an unwritten rule that you can foul harder and get away with it early on. You can also get a yellow for "persistent fouling", but it's rarely done, and when it is it's generally in the second half and the manager can respond by bringing the backup fouler on as a substitute.

Sometimes the entire team gets in on it; Brazil noticeably took turns to hack James Rodriguez in last year's WC quarter-final, although this then backfired when Colombia responded by assaulting Neymar and effectively ending Brazil's tournament. Another notable backfire is when a particular brutal RM-Barca Champion's League semi-final was decided when Messi dribbled past four booked RM players to score a crucial second goal. Notice how Pepe, the teams de facto fouling DM, holds his hands up and lets Messi go when bringing him down would have stopped the goal, demonstrating the value of replacing your fouler when he gets booked.

Nowadays the trick to avoiding a booking is to foul as early in the opposition move as possible. If you do it when they're about to score you get sent off, and if you do it when they're breaking into space you get a yellow, but if you do it as soon as your team loses the ball, you invariably get nothing. The best and most unscrupulous managers (i.e. Mourinho) have long since realised this, but most fans, pundits, and referees haven't caught on.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah Song could do it. Though he has other problems such as discipline, on the field and off it. Arteta was an underrated fouling DM as well tbh. Before his legs went at least. Just checked and he made 9 fouls without getting booked when we won 2-0 at the Alianz. That's immense.

You once had the best at it in Vieira IMO.


Though we all know his best pass was to Giggs

Viera wasn't a holder though. People always seem to miss that point.

 

[Uppercut]

Arteta was very modern with his fouling because he always fouled when defending on the front foot (i.e. trying to win the ball rather than trying to stop a goal). You couldn't get away with having a fouler like Keane/Vieira these days.

Arteta definitely had the intelligence for it, but ideally you want someone bigger, stronger and faster than the best opposition player. Obviously he's nowhere near that now, but I think even at his peak he wasn't able to nullify the really top-level players.

 

[Cabinet96]

Well you're never in a million years going to get a DM who is as quick as the fastest attacker. Even the likes of Alonso and Busquets are super slow.

 

[Uppercut]

There are different types of pace though. I'm sort of referring to the interaction between strength and speed, in the sense that Essien would tend to win if he was going for the same ball as Walcott. Maybe "mobile" would be a better word.

Alonso definitely lacks it anyway. Constantly gets exposed in big games these days.

 

[sledger]

At his peak he wasn't really used as that sort of player anyway tbf to him.

Edit: re: Arteta

 

[cpr]

Viera wasn't a holder though. People always seem to miss that point.

No, true, but I always saw him as the defensive of your midfield for a lot of the time, just happened to be that he'd be damn good bringing the ball up the pitch too. Did what Carrick does with his passes, but running (and passing too)

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Football's coming home.

Plymouth to host Premier League trophy | Plymouth Herald

 

[Pothas]

Deulofeu is back

Seriously great buy that.

Bees have made their first buy of the season. Obviously I have never heard of him but a defender was an absolute priority and I trust he will be a good one.

 

[King Pietersen]

No, true, but I always saw him as the defensive of your midfield for a lot of the time, just happened to be that he'd be damn good bringing the ball up the pitch too. Did what Carrick does with his passes, but running (and passing too)

I don't think Vieira was the main defensive part of Arsenal's midfield for that long. Petit was holding midfielder for 3 seasons alongside Vieira. Then Gilberto came in the year before the Invincibles season and filled the holding role.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah he was your archetype box-to-box midfielder. Strong defensively, usually good physically, but someone who would also bomb forward and the type who'd need to play alongside a holding midfielder who'd stay back at all times. Modern examples of Vieira and Petit/Gilberto are things like Matuidi and Motta, Vidal and Pirlo, Ramsey and Arteta, etc. A lot of Vieira types are wrongly suggested as DMs, and subsequently, possible Arsenal signings, particularly if they're black. Arsenal are looking for a new Gilberto much more than a new Vieira.

 

[duffer]

The Oracle has spoken

 

[King Pietersen]

 

[Dan]

I don't know half of them, but:

-------------------------- Lloris -------------------------
Ramos ---- Varane ---- Hummels ---- Boateng
--------- Schweinsteiger --------- Pogba ----------
Sterling -------------------------------------------- Bale
-------------------- Kane ----- Benzema -------------

Would be a ridiculous team.

 

[Cabinet96]

Sneak peak at United's potential line up next season.

 

[sledger]

 

[Cabinet96]

There's about a thousand of those on twitter. My personal favourite. https://twitter.com/Tesco/status/610727897859518464

 

[duffer]

So Schneiderlin wanted to come to us but Southampton don't want to deal with us after how we approached Chambers? Gah, it's going to be a **** watching him play for United.