*Official* English Football Season 2013-14

[superkingdave]

A team made up of players from all parts of the British Isles exists, it's called the Republic of Ireland.

Yes but we've already established no one likes B teams...

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yeah I think it depends what angle you come at this from. From the point of view of player development it can't really hurt (I am not convinced it will help much either), but from the point of view of the club game it is an abomination.

Personally club > country IMO so on that basis I am against it.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah, that's the issue for me. They're almost making it a club v country debate, and for me, as well as many others I assume, it's no contest. B teams might help, but it's a massive gamble to alter the structure of the football league in faint hope that we might see some benefits.

More young English players just have to bite the bullet and seek opportunities overseas.

 

[Furball]

Pothas has nailed if, even if it has footballing merits for the national team (and there is a ton of literature out there explaining how it's failed in Germany) club football is far more important. My team does not exist as some facilitator to England winning the world cup

And this would pretty much drive a heap of conference clubs out of business

The non EU thing is a farce too. So because premier league teams don't play enough Englishmen, let's make sure Ian Goodison and his 410 games for Tranmere are prevented from ever happening again. Because, you know, when I was watching us stumble through the last WC all I could think was 'if only there were fewer foreigners in the lower leagues then we would stand a better chance'

It's a plan from people out of touch with the lower leagues and out of touch with the fans. It stinks.

Can you point me in the direction of some of this literature? Because I had a wee look at some of the players from Germany's 2010 squad and whilst they don't appear to play as much B team football as their Spanish counterparts, the likes of Bastian Schweinsteiger, Thomas Müller and Holder Badstuber all started their careers with a season in Bayern's U23 side.

 

[Pothas]

Heard that it has failed in terms of attendances in the lower leagues and that some clubs are considering getting rid of their B team because of cost. This is all second hand stuff though, not actually read anything directly.

 

[Cabinet96]

Link to the article btw:Keeping something in reserve - should German clubs dissolve u23 teams? by Uli Hesse - ESPN FC

 

[Tom Halsey]

Perhaps Manchester United should rethink their policy given their utter failure to produce any talent of note in the last 20 years then. The idea that Man Utd are this wonderful club with a great track record of producing young players is a myth and complete bollocks.

Disagree, given the "great track record of producing young players" goes back further than twenty years. No-one has tried to perpetuate a myth that United have produced brilliant young talent in the last ten years in particular.

It's also worth noting that there are as many products of the United youth system in the most recent England squad as there are products of Arsenal's (and that is including Ashley Cole as one of the Arsenal products, nearly 15 years ago). I assume, then, that given how often we hear about Arsenal's great young players, that the idea that Arsenal produce great young players is a myth and complete bollocks also? In fact the only clubs with more youth products in the England squad are West Ham (again mainly players produced 15 years ago) and Southampton.

Given that by this measure United are joint third (this obviously ignores players like Pogba also, although I realise it also ignores foreign players from other clubs) in what everyone would acknowledge has been a comparatively unproductive time I think the myth is actually fairly well justified.

 

[Uppercut]

IIRC a really high proportion of British Prem players are United youth products. Not many have taken the step up to the next level for a while, but then players who do that are extremely rare generally.

 

[sledger]

Yeah, that's true iirc. And Arsenal are second only to Utd in this regard. Or at least that was the case a few years back anyway.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Have to give massive kudos to the Saints in this regard. Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw &, obviously, Bale.

Something to be said for the coastal air, obvz.

 

[Jarquis]

I want to know how Halsey has defined 'produce'. Plus ill take an England squad containing Cleverly Nd not Gibbs as a pretty crap way to make your point.

There was a table doing the rounds on twitter that Arsenal have now overtaken United in terms of developed players who are playing in the top 5 leagues in Europe

 

[Pothas]

It is hardly surprising that the biggest clubs produce the most players, they hoover up youth players. I would be fairly confident that it is the same in most leagues across Europe.

 

[sledger]

The going abroad point is quite a good one actually. At the World Cup how many teams other than England will have a squad of players selected entirely from their own domestic league? Not many, I shouldn't have thought.

 

[social]

Yeah, that's the issue for me. They're almost making it a club v country debate, and for me, as well as many others I assume, it's no contest. B teams might help, but it's a massive gamble to alter the structure of the football league in faint hope that we might see some benefits.

More young English players just have to bite the bullet and seek opportunities overseas.

English player are paid a MASSIVE premium to play EPL so why bother?

 

[social]

The going abroad point is quite a good one actually. At the World Cup how many teams other than England will have a squad of players selected entirely from their own domestic league? Not many, I shouldn't have thought.

They are paid a huge premium to stay at home so why bother going abroad?

Not trying to deride the English game but many of your players would be worth 10% of their current value if they were of another nationality

 

[sledger]

Well, I should like to think that at least some players would be capable of being motivated by something other than purely financial incentives. Not that I would hold my breath.

 

[GIMH]

The key point is, as usual, the one Pothas makes. All this b team, strategic arrangement bollocks. Stop prem teams from signing up far more young players than they could ever use and there would be more English players in first teams across the land.

10 and 20 years ago we had a fine youth system but it's rare that we rear a decent player all the way through now and Liverpool or Everton snap everyone imaginable up. Wouldn't be surprised if Max Power and Ash Taylor are the last guys to come through our system and actually cut the mustard for a good while.

Our last youth player to earn us some cash, Dale Jennings, was a scouse reject but you go back to the 00s and 90s and we made money off Taylor, Hume, Koumas, Irons, Tony Thomas, got shafted with Mahon etc. half of those would be in academies across the water now and then wind their way to MK Dons on loan when they'd not played a first team game by the age of twenty

I am now firmly on the side of the Against modern football camp. Modern football is ****.

 

[social]

Well, I should like to think that at least some players would be capable of being motivated by something other than purely financial incentives. Not that I would hold my breath.

Comes down to agent influence as well tbf

 

[grecian]

It is hardly surprising that the biggest clubs produce the most players, they hoover up youth players. I would be fairly confident that it is the same in most leagues across Europe.

Yep, a few Exeter and surrounds players have been "stolen" by United. I don't get Halsey at all here, United, considering that they have the pick of the country, have been fairly appalling with yoof recently.

As for B teams, none of what has been said looks remotely like improving our England players, playing at a level between Conference and Divison 2, is just going to be awful football with no competitveness whatsoever. For that you ruin a fairly effective pyramid, that is loved by 100s of thousands.

Make the Prem clubs have a proper reserve League again, that would be so more effective, yet they won't make them do that, because it's a lot easier to bully lower-league clubs, and make them a scapegoat.

That and again the coaches and coaching, which is of course should be number 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 priority. Everything else is lip-service. Amazing that Mills and Dyke's main argument against the immense and righteous back-lash, is to say "well we had to do something, what would you do nothing".

Just playground stuff. No we'd try to do something that may make a jot of difference *see priorities 1through10.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

So nervous I'm bordering on sick and its still like 27 hours away.