*Official* English Football Season 2013-14

[Tom Halsey]

Do you really think Giggs is a good player? let alone the best at United? Giggs still being a United player is symptomatic of the mire the Glazers have dragged us into. I thought Giggs should have left United after the 1999 cl win when it was clear he was not good enough on the truly big stage. As Roy Keane said recently "having a great career doesn't make you a great player" and incase you missed it he WAS talking about Giggs. Record the next United match Giggs plays in and analyse his performance at will. Do you know the story of the king in the wonderful suit of cloths? Well that is the story of Ryan Giggs. If the Glazers hadn't got their grubby hands on our club Giggs would be playing for Kidderminster Harriers or the like now and he'd still be s....

I didn't say any of this. I said he's the best we have at picking a creative pass. That's pretty different to what all of this paragraph is arguing against.

EDIT: I mean I disagree with most of this anyways but you've not read my post.

 

[Uppercut]

It'd be pretty cool if Giggs was actually really ****, because he's churned in some big performances late in his career, especially in Europe. Would sort of give hope to everyone else that there isn't much to the whole top-level football thing.

The coverage of him does piss me off a bit more than it should. His bad performances can be really, really bad, on a level that Cleverley and Carrick are too conservative in their play to even be capable of. But the **** games are glossed over while any flash of brilliance results in the press wheeling out the usual array of sycophantic platitudes. Part of me wants to see him retire purely so we don't have to hear the whole "evergreen servant of the game" arsekiss again.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Fergie needs to take share of blame for that as well though. He was there long enough to have sorted it.

Yeah I agree with this, Fergie's failure to sort out the midfield in his last couple of years was possibly his most perplexing failure.

One thing I would say though is that whilst Fergie was in charge it still didn't matter much as we still won things. So it seemed far less of an immediate problem then, and it only seems more of a problem now because Moyes is doing so much worse than Fergie.

 

[mullarkey]

I didn't say any of this. I said he's the best we have at picking a creative pass. That's pretty different to what all of this paragraph is arguing against.

EDIT: I mean I disagree with most of this anyways but you've not read my post.

fair enough.

 

[grecian]

I hate United, but Giggs is incredible, Keane is just such a moron with his quotes. Can't believe ManU fans take him seriously, particularly as he's been having a go at Fergie recently. In Keane's eyes he was the greatest, everyone else minions.

Great pundit though, for many of those reasons stated, but lets face it a bit of a ****.

 

[Pothas]

Genuinely, would any big name players see United as an exciting proposition?

Maybe not the really elite few but I think the vast majority of players would still leap at the chance.

 

[sledger]

It's ironic that a player's longevity can often be used against them in arguments such as this. It's frequently mentioned that Giggs has never won FIFA World Player of the Year, the Ballon d'Or, or FWA Footballer of the Year throughout his entire career, and how he's never really been the main man in any of the Utd teams he has played in. Whilst all this might be true, it's also equally true to say that he's remained an incredibly consistent mainstay in the team throughout his Utd tenure, which is pretty remarkable in itself when you consider how long he's been playing, but even more impressive when you consider that he's managed to achieve this despite having undergone a transformation from a wide player into a deep-lying midfielder.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I hate United, but Giggs is incredible, Keane is just such a moron with his quotes. Can't believe ManU fans take him seriously, particularly as he's been having a go at Fergie recently. In Keane's eyes he was the greatest, everyone else minions.

Great pundit though, for many of those reasons stated, but lets face it a bit of a ****.

Yeah Keane is pretty polarised I find. He's either really wrong or really right. I don't mind him as a pundit for that reason because he at least will say what he thinks.

He has the odd really strange opinion though, and they are so strong too. I almost get the impression at times that other ITV pundits are scared to disagree with him.

Was one of my heroes when I was younger but I can't really stand him now (not just for his punditry tbf), which saddens me.

 

[mullarkey]

Fergie needs to take share of blame for that as well though. He was there long enough to have sorted it.

Don't know if you share my view on the Glazers (i hate them) but Fergie's standing as the greatest British manager of all time is what carried us through, it was always going to be a struggle (to start with at least) once he relinquished the reins. Fans mustn't turn on Moyes they should see the bigger picture. One thing I always detested about Fergie was the praise he heaped on the owners time and time again. The Glazers have no moral nor SHOULD they have any legal right to own the club. They are no more than common thieves but Fergie knew which side his retirement-bread was buttered on.

 

[mullarkey]

It's ironic that a player's longevity can often be used against them in arguments such as this. It's frequently mentioned that Giggs has never won FIFA World Player of the Year, the Ballon d'Or, or FWA Footballer of the Year throughout his entire career, and how he's never really been the main man in any of the Utd teams he has played in. Whilst all this might be true, it's also equally true to say that he's remained an incredibly consistent mainstay in the team throughout his Utd tenure, which is pretty remarkable in itself when you consider how long he's been playing, but even more impressive when you consider that he's managed to achieve this despite having undergone a transformation from a wide player into a deep-lying midfielder.

you mean 'he lost his pace.'

 

[sledger]

I almost get the impression at times that other ITV pundits are scared to disagree with him.

I definitely get that impression to be honest. On more than one occasion I've noticed you can almost feel the tension in the studio where someone dares to say something contrary to what Keane's just said. Can't say I blame people for being scared of him though, I would be if I was sat next to him.

Like you say, he seems to be either really right or really wrong, but Id' rather listen to wrong opinions of the Keane ilk than those of the Jamie Redknapp ilk. Though I often disagree with what Keane says, I can usually see where he's coming from, whereas Jamie Redknapp just seems to string random words/footballing cliches together and babble.

It'd be good to get those two in a studio together come to think of it, I imagine Keane's reaction to some of the stuff Redknapp says would be quite amusing.

 

[sledger]

you mean 'he lost his pace.'

Well, that's obviously one of the factors that led to this change, yes.

 

[sledger]

Don't know if you share my view on the Glazers (i hate them) but Fergie's standing as the greatest British manager of all time is what carried us through, it was always going to be a struggle (to start with at least) once he relinquished the reins. Fans mustn't turn on Moyes they should see the bigger picture. One thing I always detested about Fergie was the praise he heaped on the owners time and time again. The Glazers have no moral nor SHOULD they have any legal right to own the club. They are no more than common thieves but Fergie knew which side his retirement-bread was buttered on.

Care to elaborate on the bit in bold?

 

[Tom Halsey]

It's ironic that a player's longevity can often be used against them in arguments such as this. It's frequently mentioned that Giggs has never won FIFA World Player of the Year, the Ballon d'Or, or FWA Footballer of the Year throughout his entire career, and how he's never really been the main man in any of the Utd teams he has played in. Whilst all this might be true, it's also equally true to say that he's remained an incredibly consistent mainstay in the team throughout his Utd tenure, which is pretty remarkable in itself when you consider how long he's been playing, but even more impressive when you consider that he's managed to achieve this despite having undergone a transformation from a wide player into a deep-lying midfielder.

Giggs' peak years were underrated if anything as well IMO. He has never been our best player but he was certainly one of our best players for a good 15 years, and was IMO fairly clear as the best left winger in the world for a good portion of his career.

He was also in our strongest XI from roughly 08-10 in centre midfield as well. Wasn't up to playing every game by then of course from a physical point of view but in the games he did play he had two really really good seasons in 08/09 and 09/10. I say that as someone who wrote him off in 2007 as well, before he moved to central midfield. Remember writing him off on here, would search the posts if I could be arsed.

 

[grecian]

Yep, Keane is a great pundit, for those that can remember Cloughie, it was why he was loved. Despite his most remembered line about a "clown" goal-keeper was clearly drivel.

People with opinions in football seem to have died on the telly, just bland media-drones.

 

[Pothas]

you mean 'he lost his pace.'

And adjusted to it accordingly. How is that a bad thing?

 

[grecian]

And adjusted to it accordingly. How is that a bad thing?

Yeah I was wondering that myself

 

[mullarkey]

Care to elaborate on the bit in bold?

Best analogy I can think of is that if I put an offer in for you house and then take all the money out of you and your wife's bank accounts to pay for it!

 

[sledger]

Maybe not the really elite few but I think the vast majority of players would still leap at the chance.

This was my initial reaction as well. But then I thought of David Moyes and was not so sure.

I doubt many players, including those of relatively high profile, would be perturbed but United's poor league position, but I can see plenty being not exactly enthused at the prospect of playing under Moyes.

When Ozil joined Arsenal he strongly emphasised how the main reason he joined the club was because of Wenger. I can't picture a similar player joining Man Utd and saying similar things about Moyes. I may yet be proved wrong on this sort of thing, but when United were linked with Ander Herrera in the summer I just couldn't see it happening, simply because I couldn't imagine a player like that being especially keen to link up with a manager like Moyes. Similar to the way in which no other big clubs were linked with Moyes when they needed a manager, I can't imagine that many big players are overly keen to be linked with him either, regardless of the stature and profile that Man Utd as a club undoubtedly still has.

 

[sledger]

Best analogy I can think of is that if I put an offer in for you house and then take all the money out of you and your wife's bank accounts to pay for it!

Well, that's not a very good analogy I'm afraid.