Craig
World Traveller
Spoke too soon? Scotland losing to Georgia is even more dire.
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*Official* English Football Season 2007-08
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
another terrible suggestion for a formation from vanilla ice i notice.....
glad about the result, will actually be able to enjoy the competition next summer now that england (hopefully) wont be in it. Cant understand why everyone said England played so well to be honest, the BBC highlights made it look like they were held back in their own half for most of the match by a very mediocre team. That said, England have failed to qualify because for the most part they are a very mediocre team with a crap coach. If we list the players on display yesterday its hardly any surprise..
Robinson (overated, prone to errors, mediocre)
Richards (very good player)
Ferdinand (overated a lot but ok)
Campbell (great defender in his day, but not the player he once was)
Lescott (ok at club level, not international standard, mediocre)
Barry (solid, uninspiring player, did an ok job, but nothing special)
Gerrard (another nothing performance in an england shirt)
Wright Philips (just not very good)
Joe Cole (a show pony, ok when the goings good, but when it comes to the crunch simply not up to it, better than mediocre, but not much)
Owen (Englands best goal scorer)
Rooney (great talent no doubt, underperformer for england no doubt)
Dowing (incredibly mediocre)
Lampard (terrible for england, very overated otherwise)
Crouch (has mediocre written all over him tbh)
terrible match, the results of which saves us from more terrible matches next summer,
time for mcdonut to resign.
glad about the result, will actually be able to enjoy the competition next summer now that england (hopefully) wont be in it. Cant understand why everyone said England played so well to be honest, the BBC highlights made it look like they were held back in their own half for most of the match by a very mediocre team. That said, England have failed to qualify because for the most part they are a very mediocre team with a crap coach. If we list the players on display yesterday its hardly any surprise..
Robinson (overated, prone to errors, mediocre)
Richards (very good player)
Ferdinand (overated a lot but ok)
Campbell (great defender in his day, but not the player he once was)
Lescott (ok at club level, not international standard, mediocre)
Barry (solid, uninspiring player, did an ok job, but nothing special)
Gerrard (another nothing performance in an england shirt)
Wright Philips (just not very good)
Joe Cole (a show pony, ok when the goings good, but when it comes to the crunch simply not up to it, better than mediocre, but not much)
Owen (Englands best goal scorer)
Rooney (great talent no doubt, underperformer for england no doubt)
Dowing (incredibly mediocre)
Lampard (terrible for england, very overated otherwise)
Crouch (has mediocre written all over him tbh)
terrible match, the results of which saves us from more terrible matches next summer,
time for mcdonut to resign.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Agree with most of your assessments tbh, except the Ferdinand one. Additionally, while I agree with your assessments of Campbell and Lescott, from what I saw they played very well yesterday.
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
Guuuuusssssss
steds
Hall of Fame Member
Scotland are a dire team to begin with, though. It wasn't so long ago they were failing to beat the Faroe Islands. It's a minor miracle they're were they are atm. England, on the other hand, really should be topping their group. So for their qualification to be out of their hands is slightly more embarrassing situation, imo.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Dead set supercoach. I wish we'd been able to keep hold of him.
Craig
World Traveller
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Craig
World Traveller
Hahaha what a cop-out.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
yes completely agree, the reason for them being in this position in the first place is due to being tactically inept in almost all the games played in this qualifying campaign, i dont care what anyone says about the 3-5-2 formation and how it was right at the time blah blah blah...the bottom line it was a terrible idea that was never going to work, FULL STOP.
Secondly, England last night played very negatively, with everyone behind the ball, AND the inclusion of Wright-Philips was dreadful, it was obvious this would be a very physical match anyway, so why include a player who would obviously be muscled out of the match....... and who cant defend anyway.....stupid.
For all everyone moaned about Sven, England never struggled to qualify automatically with him at the helm, AND BEFORE ANYONE SAYS "yeah well this is a harder group than those previous", NO IT BLOODY ISNT.
and all this crap about "what a talented group of players we have" thats a load of **** as well, how can anyone justify a claim that England are one of the worlds best sides, non of the players have done anything of ANY note in the last couple of seasons...
The worst thing though, the manager...this was ALWAYS going to happen, always, he simply is not good enough, i have always been of this opinion, people can say hes been unlucky etc... but i'm afraid bad luck or not, a team like england cannot drop points at home and away to minnow sides like macedonia and have hope to qualify (automatically or not)....McLaren must go.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Bang goes my punt at top-scorer too, Another fiver each-way down the drain. Thought 16-1 was to good to miss. Ho-hum.
Shaggy Alfresco
State Captain
YuS
Craig
World Traveller
Solid rant, solid rant.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Vanilla ice, ha the big sledger you are total annoyance yo.
Anyway i do not believe my suggestion of not relying totally on the 4-4-2 formation & instead of being more flexible and trying new formations that could work wouldn't kill them especially the 4-3-2-1 formation.
That flat 4-4-2 formation that won us easy games since the Israel encounter up until Russia humbled us againts any of the big nations in Europe we would be murdered. 4-4-2 may still be the most used formation in the game by most coaches but you got have something special in the centre of the park to make it work. Look at France, Italy or Spain for example they at times play 4-4-2 but look who play at in te centre of the park for them Vieira & Makelele, Guttuso & Pirlo, Xavi & Albeda supported by wide-men who are extremely adept and natural at their roles a target man or strong striker with another one who can play of them. With England we don't have that.
If we intend to play 4-4-2 it has to be a diamond formation with Hargreaves holding & either Gerrard or Lampard as the play-maker depending on form. But in most cases you would have to pick Gerrard over Lamps since his all-round game is better than Lamps even if Lamps may be better off at scoring. On the right Beckham still is the best-man since except for Bentley who has a decent combination of pace & crossing ability all of the other aspiring right-wingers in the land in SWP, Lennon, Pennant have a lot of work to do on their overall game before they can be termed quality international wingers, while we are stuck with Cole on the left since no one in the land is better. (although Ashley Young is progessing well)
Going forward even though we have Owen & Rooney who have proved in the past they can forge a solid partnership given their quickness in the box you always feel agains sides like France, Italy, Germany & other physical sides were they got strong central defenses and mid-field marshalls that they could get marked out & thus we need a target man option to protect them. Thus we may say with Heskey's recent emergence that he is the best target-man available for either Owen or Rooney to play off but can we be certain that he can maintain that performance of a comanding giant or even develop more into goal-scoring one and not go back to days were he wasted his presence in the box?. Also even though Ashton shows potential as well in that role until he can get a full season for the hammers we would be just working on assumptions again.
But that is if everyone is playing well and ATM 4-4-2 is just won't work for England. Gerrard nor Lampard is playing nowhere near good enough to be used as a play-maker at the head of a diamond mid-field & Joe Cole even though has had some very good days on the left for England of late since the WC game vs Sweden has to gone off the boil a bit especially since he hardly plays on the left for Chelsea anymore & hasn't for a long time his solid performances have been from the right in a 4-3-3 formation (i.e 2 recent CL goals from the right while a poor FA Cup final from the left lead to him being taken off vs United). Football is a team game and if we got certain players who in certain positions where we aren't getting the best out of them we are going to have problems on the pitch. On current form & known ability the best two men to play in the centre of park for England in a 4-4-2 formation would be Hargreaves & Barry, not dynamic but i know they would do work tirelessly for England.
To my point though, 4-3-2-1 i'm feeling it looking at other teams in Europe & worldwide who play it or have played it i.e AC Milan with Guttuso, Pirlo, Seedorf or Ambrosini more withdrawn & assign various roles with Kaka as the playmaker behind two strikers, Werder Bremem with Bauman/Frings/Borowski withdrawn doing basically defensive work with Diego the playmaker, Spain in the last WC with Xavi/Albeda/Fabregas deep with Raul the playmaker or the recent Argentina side in Copa America with Mascherano/Cambiasso/Veron deep & Riquelme the playmaker.
With England i'd say have Hargreaves/Barry/Gerrard withdrawn with various roles i.e Hargreaves with hold, Barry will supply the passes & Gerrard will go from box to box defending or attacking when necessary. Rooney will be playmaker since he is the only one who has the skill to play that role. Then you would have Owen & Heskey/Ashton so we will have the physical & aerial threat along with pace up front:
-------------------------------HESKEY/ASHTON-----------------------OWEN--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------ROONEY------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------BARRY---------------------------------------------GERRARD------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------HARGREAVES-------------------------------------------------
Well balanced mid-field & based on the situation of the game you could always go back to 4-4-2 since you have bench strenght of Lamps, Cole, Beckham to call from. If things go England's way and they get to EURO 2008 along with a change of manager this formation is a good option.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
"The Big Sledger". 
cpr
International Coach
Great win for us agreed, but Villa.... worst defending i've seen in a long while
Walk in first, backed off for the second, scored the other 2 for us. Both players deserved to be sent off (actually, as a former keeper, feel sorry for Carson, been many a time i've gone for the ball feet first, keeps the hands free incase they nick it over you, makes you bigger. Plus the feet are nearer so react quicker. He messed up but meh)
Walk in first, backed off for the second, scored the other 2 for us. Both players deserved to be sent off (actually, as a former keeper, feel sorry for Carson, been many a time i've gone for the ball feet first, keeps the hands free incase they nick it over you, makes you bigger. Plus the feet are nearer so react quicker. He messed up but meh)
