***official*** England whiteball tour of india January 2025***

[Chin Music]

Apart from the fact that India didn't net either before the 3rd ODI. But when you've already won the series there's less pressure on you to perform in the final one.

Apparently, Banton turned up the day before this ODI and headed straight out onto the golf course rather than net. He actually turned out to be one of the better performers, but just sums up the ethic in the squad. You can get away with it if you're winning, but (as the Women found out too), they've lost public sentiment now.

I almost hate to say it but I'm with KP. You can dislike his obvious hubris, but he's right. When I set out my post above, I was only setting out what Buttler had said and I did disagree with it as I said that they had the day after their travel to practice. If that is not what any of them think is worth their while doing, then shame on them.

 

[kevinw]

If it was anyone but India or Aus, I'd totally agree. Can't wait for this "Bazball" bubble to burst and go away, so we can get back to having (hopefully) an England side to be proud of.

I think the initial bounce, as exhilarating as it was, with Baz and Stokes was the same a football club often gets with a new manager, but the mean has been reverted to now. I don't expect us to be at the same level as Australia or India. They fundamentally have better players available than us. But it's the complacency and face-fit culture in this side (and the women) that's sad. A casual attitude towards improvement and selection based on vibes and then guys who've worked their butts off in CC with superior records not getting a chance.

 

[Chin Music]

I think the initial bounce, as exhilarating as it was, with Baz and Stokes was the same a football club often gets with a new manager, but the mean has been reverted to now. I don't expect us to be at the same level as Australia or India. They fundamentally have better players available than us. But it's the complacency and face-fit culture in this side (and the women) that's sad. A casual attitude towards improvement and selection based on vibes and then guys who've worked their butts off in CC with superior records not getting a chance.

I'm not sure I buy the selection by vibes except for the daft selection of Josh Hull for the Sri Lanka game at the Oval. What I dislike is the fact that certain players such as Zak Crawley seem to fail upwards, which I think I get with you. I' mot sure there are a whole load of batters out there for the red ball game that are necessarily better than most that we have, but I would rather that the existing players got stuck in a little bit more in improving their game like you say. Edit: I also want to say that I am stuffed if I know what the answer is for ODI cricket. Many blokes don't play 50 overs any more because of the crisp packed tournament.

 

[Durham Fan]

I’m detecting a change in tone from the media and a lot of English cricket supporters regarding the McCullum era.

You just the feel from the outside that it’s like a holiday camp. “Training optional” ffs.

Every time Ben Duckett opens his mouth he looks like a fool.

 

[wpdavid]

I can't help thinking that we should be separating their record with the red ball side from the white ball versions when evaluating McCullum and Stokes' regime. Last time out's 2-1 in NZ wasn't too shabby against a side who had just seen off India 3-0 in their own back yard. I know the white ball side seems to be going nowhere fast, but my take on the matter is that's down to so many of our so called specialists simply haven't kicked on, for whatever reasons.

I'm currently reading Lawrence Booth and Nick Hoult's 'Bazball'. It really is a very good read and far more nuanced than some of the subheadings would have you believe. Obviousy it's generally positive about the regime, but it's no hagiography.

 

[Chin Music]

I can't help thinking that we should be separating their record with the red ball side from the white ball versions when evaluating McCullum and Stokes' regime. Last time out's 2-1 in NZ wasn't too shabby against a side who had just seen off India 3-0 in their own back yard. I know the white ball side seems to be going nowhere fast, but my take on the matter is that's down to so many of our so called specialists simply haven't kicked on, for whatever reasons.

I'm currently reading Lawrence Booth and Nick Hoult's 'Bazball'. It really is a very good read and far more nuanced than some of the subheadings would have you believe. Obviousy it's generally positive about the regime, but it's no hagiography.

Yeah, I make you right on that. Stokes hasn't been part of the white ball set up since the world cup. You would have thought that after this tournament, they will need a bit of an overhaul of the players that they have for the white ball side.

 

[GIMH]

I can't help thinking that we should be separating their record with the red ball side from the white ball versions when evaluating McCullum and Stokes' regime. Last time out's 2-1 in NZ wasn't too shabby against a side who had just seen off India 3-0 in their own back yard. I know the white ball side seems to be going nowhere fast, but my take on the matter is that's down to so many of our so called specialists simply haven't kicked on, for whatever reasons.

I'm currently reading Lawrence Booth and Nick Hoult's 'Bazball'. It really is a very good read and far more nuanced than some of the subheadings would have you believe. Obviousy it's generally positive about the regime, but it's no hagiography.

Really enjoyable book that. And agreed.

There seems to be a revisionism attached to the McCullum/Stokes era round here of late, but we've lost two Test series in three years, both on the subcontinent. A couple of the drawn series are certainly missed opportunities, but then there's the sublime and ridiculous within some of it that's turned certain defeat into victory. Any suggestion that we have regressed back to where we were in the dying days of Root and Silverwood is not actually backed up in any reality. But the summer and winter ahead are probably the ones that will define this red ball era

White ball. My expectation is that the 'reset' there will start after the CT. Think they're just trying to get through that, for now. Could be wrong.

 

[honestbharani]

I dont think Bazball is a mistake at all. Sometimes, its frustrating as you can literally see they are buying into their own hype too much and end up losing games they should win (Ashes 2023 etc.) but it has definitely been an overall positive for English cricket and for test cricket IMHO.

And FWIW, while Baz can be an absolute horror of cliques sometimes to the media, I actually think he is far more intelligent than he lets on and he does regroup and recalibrate the side when it gets too out of hand. I suppose its just a cost of the approach sometimes that they go overboard with it.

 

[Spark]

I honestly can barely remember anything absurd that McCullum himself has said to the media. It's been the likes of Brook, Duckett and Stokes who have come out with the more eye-rolly statements.

 

[honestbharani]

I honestly can barely remember anything absurd that McCullum himself has said to the media. It's been the likes of Brook, Duckett and Stokes who have come out with the more eye-rolly statements.

Yeah nothing absurd, but he can be full of trite cliques sometimes as our Kiwi posters have noted. And of that 3, I think Duckett is the worst. That is saying something given the other 2 in that list too.

 

[Durham Fan]

I can't help thinking that we should be separating their record with the red ball side from the white ball versions when evaluating McCullum and Stokes' regime. Last time out's 2-1 in NZ wasn't too shabby against a side who had just seen off India 3-0 in their own back yard. I know the white ball side seems to be going nowhere fast, but my take on the matter is that's down to so many of our so called specialists simply haven't kicked on, for whatever reasons.

I'm currently reading Lawrence Booth and Nick Hoult's 'Bazball'. It really is a very good read and far more nuanced than some of the subheadings would have you believe. Obviousy it's generally positive about the regime, but it's no hagiography.

Yes a 2-1 away win in New Zealand was very good, but we saw the familiar failings of this England Test side in the 3rd Test with another shocking batting collapse on a relatively tame deck.

 

[Chin Music]

Yes a 2-1 away win in New Zealand was very good, but we saw the familiar failings of this England Test side in the 3rd Test with another shocking batting collapse on a relatively tame deck.

The performances in the 3rd test of the Sri Lanka and New Zealand series respectively were really poor and in some respects almost seemed to be downing tools. As I said above, the selection of Hull based on very little was poor and seemed to take the match and opposition for granted.

 

[Durham Fan]

The performances in the 3rd test of the Sri Lanka and New Zealand series respectively were really poor and in some respects almost seemed to be downing tools. As I said above, the selection of Hull based on very little was poor and seemed to take the match and opposition for granted.

We tend to start series well and then tail off very badly. The batting collapses in Pakistan were shambolic as well.

 

[Hungry Llama]

We got beat in the 3rd test at Multan despite batting 1st, whereas the WIndies beat Pakistan when they batted first at Multan in their 2nd test.
Obviously the windies spinners must be a lot better than ours.

Perhaps we should copy the 'minnows' and instead of playing 5 test series we play 3, and instead of 3 test series, we play 2, that should cut our losses a bit. Although we would have lost the last ashes 2-1.