**Official** England in The West Indies

[Swervy]

yes but im sure if england had lost by 3 runs, swervy and everyone else would have blamed it on collingwood.

no i wouldnt have blamed Collingwood....a win or a loss is the culmination of several things that happen throughout a game. I would rather praise Chanderpaul for his batting

 

[badgerhair]

I'll just simply re-iterate my view that they look a proven-international-quality batsman short.

And I'm sure you've been told a billion times not to exaggerate.

Ah. Well, if the argument solely revolves around how many caps the members of the team have, there's no argument.

I'd be interested in your view of whether Yuvraj Singh or Kumar Sangakkara are proven-international-quality batsmen, though, given the extraordinary similarity of their batting stats to those of Andrew Flintoff.

It's certainly true that the English batting on Sunday was pretty unconvincing and that that impression was reinforced by the almost complete failure of the few players with any decent track record to do anything particularly useful. I suppose my great puzzlement is why there is any great interest in changing the team rather than telling them to pull their socks up. If I thought they were always going to play that badly, I'd be worried, but since the overwhelming impression that the players gave in post-match discussion was that they themselves thought they were rubbish and ought to have done much better, I'm not.

Cheers,

Mike

Cheers,

Mike

 

[a massive zebra]

I'd be interested in your view of whether Yuvraj Singh or Kumar Sangakkara are proven-international-quality batsmen, though, given the extraordinary similarity of their batting stats to those of Andrew Flintoff.

Your mad.

 

[luckyeddie]

Your mad.

Au contraire.

Mike is pointing out the nonsense of using statistics as the foundation of an argument. Or maybe he's advocating the use of statistics as the foundation of any argument.

Or something.

Anyway, all three average 30.

 

[garage flower]

Ah. Well, if the argument solely revolves around how many caps the members of the team have, there's no argument.

I'd be interested in your view of whether Yuvraj Singh or Kumar Sangakkara are proven-international-quality batsmen, though, given the extraordinary similarity of their batting stats to those of Andrew Flintoff.

It's certainly true that the English batting on Sunday was pretty unconvincing and that that impression was reinforced by the almost complete failure of the few players with any decent track record to do anything particularly useful. I suppose my great puzzlement is why there is any great interest in changing the team rather than telling them to pull their socks up. If I thought they were always going to play that badly, I'd be worried, but since the overwhelming impression that the players gave in post-match discussion was that they themselves thought they were rubbish and ought to have done much better, I'm not.

Cheers,

Mike

Cheers,

Mike

I'm not sure where Flintoff comes into it. I'd consider him to be pretty well proven, though he seems to have suffered more than the acceptable number of rushes of blood on this tour.

As posted, I was thinking more about Blackwell or Clarke making way for, for example, Butcher, who's wealth of test experience and natural strokeplay would allow him to adapt fairly quickly to international one-day cricket I'd have thought.

With regard to Yuvraj, I'd rate him much higher than Clarke and Blackwell and bear in mind the Indian team also tends to include 6 batsmen + Dravid, giving them the strength in depth that - and this was my original point - I think England lack.

 

[garage flower]

Au contraire.

Mike is pointing out the nonsense of using statistics as the foundation of an argument. Or maybe he's advocating the use of statistics as the foundation of any argument.

Or something.

Anyway, all three average 30.

Pretentious, moi.

Mike seems to be creating arguments where none exist, including introducing stats to prove an argument he's having with.....himself, I presume.

 

[badgerhair]

Pretentious, moi.

Mike seems to be creating arguments where none exist, including introducing stats to prove an argument he's having with.....himself, I presume.

One of the difficulties of not having a good threading mechanism for this discussion is that it's a bit easy to get confused as to which bit of the arguments is current.

If you look at the comments made by a massive zebra, you will see that they are at least tangentially relevant. That I have been answering some of his points in posts replying to yours doesn't make things any easier to comprehend.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

Pretentious, moi.

Mike seems to be creating arguments where none exist, including introducing stats to prove an argument he's having with.....himself, I presume.

He's not the only person on here to have done that in recent days (and I'm including myself in that number). It seems that we have lost the ability to debate sensibly. Must be something to do with the water in Derby, Bangalore, New York etc.

 

[garage flower]

One of the difficulties of not having a good threading mechanism for this discussion is that it's a bit easy to get confused as to which bit of the arguments is current.

If you look at the comments made by a massive zebra, you will see that they are at least tangentially relevant. That I have been answering some of his points in posts replying to yours doesn't make things any easier to comprehend.

Cheers,

Mike

Yes, got you now. That clears things up....I think.

To recap though - just in case I'm still confused - everyone agrees that we need to entice Thorpe and Hussain out of ODI retirement asap and get rid of that talentless lummox Flintoff?!

 

[Swervy]

Yes, got you now. That clears things up....I think.

To recap though - just in case I'm still confused - everyone agrees that we need to entice Thorpe and Hussain out of ODI retirement asap and get rid of that talentless lummox Flintoff?!

hahaha..now you are just trying to wind the England fans up

 

[badgerhair]

Yes, got you now. That clears things up....I think.

To recap though - just in case I'm still confused - everyone agrees that we need to entice Thorpe and Hussain out of ODI retirement asap and get rid of that talentless lummox Flintoff?!

Nah. Not Hussain. He was always crap in one-dayers. It's Knight we need back.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

Nah. Not Hussain. He was always crap in one-dayers. It's Knight we need back.

Cheers,

Mike

Mark Rampr......

*bang*

<quack> sorted

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The way the West Indies are playing anyone but Lara will do me

The Sarwan one wasnt that bad a decision..yeah he nicked it but when you first see it, it looked pretty plum. The umpires cant always go on noise alone (as saw in the Lara not-out last test).

When I saw the Sarwan straight up I could tell he nicked it. In fact, it was more blatant in real time than it seemed on replay. To tell the truth, I have little confidence in Aleem Dar. After all, he did give that amazingly awful decision against Vaughan.

 

[tooextracool]

I don't really see that there's anything to weasel out of and will ignore your rather bizarre attempt (is there a full moon tonight?) to provoke an argument around Rikki Clarke's status . I'll just simply re-iterate my view that they look a proven-international-quality batsman short.

i agree with garage flower here....we are one quality batsman short. but i dont see the need to bring back hussain,thorpe or butcher for reasons mentioned earlier. and really does this ODI series matter so much that we need to bring in butcher and thorpe?this is the right time to groom some young players like collingwood, strauss etc.i dont think the england management would care if we lost the series 4-3....they would more likely want to see who can cut it at the international level and who can not.IMO clarke's performances have been abysmal so far...i dont care if he scored a 98 odd while everyone else scored 30 odds in a county game....and greame hick has more than 100 first class 100s,theres a slot open there...must be someone talented enough to take over that spot for now.

 

[Swervy]

i agree with garage flower here....we are one quality batsman short. but i dont see the need to bring back hussain,thorpe or butcher for reasons mentioned earlier. and really does this ODI series matter so much that we need to bring in butcher and thorpe?this is the right time to groom some young players like collingwood, strauss etc.i dont think the england management would care if we lost the series 4-3....they would more likely want to see who can cut it at the international level and who can not.IMO clarke's performances have been abysmal so far...i dont care if he scored a 98 odd while everyone else scored 30 odds in a county game....and greame hick has more than 100 first class 100s,theres a slot open there...must be someone talented enough to take over that spot for now.

i must agree as well....no need to have Clarke in there...dig Fairbrother out of the ground and get him in, he retired too young, the legend that he is.

 

[marc71178]

Forget Fairbrother, I demand the recall of Boycott!

 

[luckyeddie]

I'm resigning myself to the fact that, despite a history of mistakes, the selectors do know what they are on about.

Perhaps they do expect one or the other of our young all-rounders to grow into the role. Stranger things have happened.

Anyway, I'm no longer in the mood for confrontation and I'll punch anyone's lights out who disagrees with me.

 

[tooextracool]

what really worries me about this english ODI squad in the WI is that they dont really have a back up batsman. what if one of the top 4(tresco,strauss,vaughan and collingwood) gets injured?we're already one genuine batsman short.the thought of seeing anthony mcgrath replacing collingwood ticks me off.

 

[garage flower]

Going to either of the games this weekend Mr M?

I get the impression Lara will be making an appearance (at the expense of Dwayne Smith?) and I guess there's every chance of Bradshaw finally getting a run in place of Collymore.

Any problems with the weather?

EDIT: Should've checked before posting. Lara fit to play and Collymore retained apparently.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'm not convinced Lara is fit, but with that loss on Sunday there was no way he would miss this one. Had we won he would have served his sentence no doubt. I actually feel a bit sorry for Dwayne Smith. He played well on Sunday IMO, much better than he's played in any level of cricket recently.