**Official** England in The West Indies

[luckyeddie]

im sure their bowling will come under scrutiny against NZ if they go in with only 4 front line bowlers. flintoff has done nothing of substance at all in test matches, harmison has really still got some way to go to prove himself,jones is still inexperienced and hoggard really struggles when the ball doesnt move about. england need a spinner in that squad, they need to find a suitable replacement for giles...batty is not even West indies class.

Face it - Harmison, if he had 300 test wickets, would still have 'some way to go to prove himself' in some circles - not that I'm disagreeing with the main sentiment of your point, though.

The New Zealand batting is likely to be far more of a difficult prospect than the West Indies, but the fact that England are going up against stiffer opposition does not necessarily mean that they will fail.

Remember that the West Indies last year made hay against the Australian attack in one test - and they scored a tremendous number of centuries against the (on paper) far more potent attack of South Africa.

Double-edged sword, perhaps?

 

[marc71178]

for him to become our most reliable player he is going to hafta score big runs instead of his usual 50-60 that we're accustomed to seeing from him.

"His usual 50-60"

That suggests to me he's pretty reliable...

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Carib Beer XI 110-7 atm. Nice to see englands backup bowlers doing well and keeping pressure on the main lot.

 

[tooextracool]

Face it - Harmison, if he had 300 test wickets, would still have 'some way to go to prove himself' in some circles - not that I'm disagreeing with the main sentiment of your point, though.

im not saying that he wont every prove himself...im saying that he needs to get wickets against the better teams and if he does infact get wickets against NZ i would definetly consider him to be englands frontline bowler for the next 10 years

The New Zealand batting is likely to be far more of a difficult prospect than the West Indies, but the fact that England are going up against stiffer opposition does not necessarily mean that they will fail.[/B]

i never said that they would....im just saying that they would be better off going in with 4 frontline bowlers instead of 3(flintoff is definetly not a front line bowler)

Originally posted by luckyeddie Remember that the West Indies last year made hay against the Australian attack in one test - and they scored a tremendous number of centuries against the (on paper) far more potent attack of South Africa.

Double-edged sword, perhaps? [/B]

remember also that they all came on flat tracks and that west indies seem to struggle alot more than other teams do when the ball seams around a bit and im sure u would disagree if i said that that has got something to do with gayle and co's footwork and technique

 

[badgerhair]

What about Flintoff? I'm a fan of his and wouldn't advocate dropping him, but surely he can only get away with threatening to be a destructive batsman for so long, before he's required to actually deliver on a consistent basis.

If Clarke or Collingwood perform against the Carib Beer XI, they might start to put some pressure on big Freddie.

Just edited this having looked at the series stats from Sri Lanka (I'd criticized his lack of wickets as well). Didn't realise his bowling figures were so good over there, but I still think his batting needs to pick up quickly.

In what has been a low-scoring series, he has made more runs that Vaughan and Trescothick put together and averages 34.50 with the bat. This is not spectacular success, but nor is it failure. His bowling has been unsuccessful in terms of wickets but relatively economical, as is basically the requirement from him, and he has taken the catches that have come his way.

He has not starred, but he has done a solid, respectable job of filling in the cracks. He has delivered usefulness, but not anything more.

You can't accuse him of letting the side down. You can say he hasn't done anything wonderful either, but it hasn't yet been his turn.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

A solid display by the England backup bowlers against the Carib Beer XI (Mmmmmm, beer). The islanders were dismissed for 129 in their first innings, 4 wickets for Hoggard and 2 each for Anderson, Giles and Clarke.
In reply, England lost Butcher for 17, but Trescothick (25*) and Collingwood (18*) have taken the score on to 68-1 off 20.

 

[badgerhair]

A solid display by the England backup bowlers against the Carib Beer XI (Mmmmmm, beer). The islanders were dismissed for 129 in their first innings, 4 wickets for Hoggard and 2 each for Anderson, Giles and Clarke.
In reply, England lost Butcher for 17, but Trescothick (25*) and Collingwood (18*) have taken the score on to 68-1 off 20.

Trescothick was caught behind when the score was on 21, but it was a Lawson no-ball. For over-stepping, not chucking.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Tom Halsey]

In what has been a low-scoring series, he has made more runs that Vaughan and Trescothick put together and averages 34.50 with the bat. This is not spectacular success, but nor is it failure. His bowling has been unsuccessful in terms of wickets but relatively economical, as is basically the requirement from him, and he has taken the catches that have come his way.

He has not starred, but he has done a solid, respectable job of filling in the cracks. He has delivered usefulness, but not anything more.

You can't accuse him of letting the side down. You can say he hasn't done anything wonderful either, but it hasn't yet been his turn.

Cheers,

Mike

Agree completely with this post.

And when it comes to it, he will step up to the plate with a big century or something.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

In the Carib Beer Cup final, between Jamaica and Barbados, Barbados are 149/5, leading by just 33 runs after 2 days of competition.

The scores off the top of my head...

Barbados 1st innings 143 ao
Ryan Hinds 43, Tino Best 30
Daren Powell 3/36, Andrew Richardson 3/29, Nehemiah Perry 2/15, Chris Gayle 2/33

Jamaica 1st innings 259 ao
Chris Gayle 73, Tamar Lambert 33, Keith Hibbert 32
Pedro Collins 4/36, Ian Bradshaw 3/52 ?, Corey Collymore 2/46

Barbados 2nd innings 149/5

Corey Collymore bowled superbly yet again in the first innings, and yet again he was unsuccessful.

Daren Powell looks a very impressive bowler and surely is leagues ahead of one Sanford.

Sherwin Campbell and Ryan Hinds both looked quite superb and both got poor decisions to be given out in the second innings.

Dwayne Smith looked absolutely clueless. It's so frustrating watching him bat because he's such an idiot! He comes out with his team 4 wickets down and leading by around 30 runs on second innings and the first ball he goes for a wild shot and misses. A couple balls after and he's attempting a swipe at a short one and not making any reasonable contact. He's struck plumb in front driving at one, but given not out by some ridiculously crap umpiring, but the next ball he drives at a wide outswinger and nicks it to 'keeper. I'm baffled.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Trescothick was caught behind when the score was on 21, but it was a Lawson no-ball. For over-stepping, not chucking.

Cheers,

Mike

121/3 at stumps.

Trescothick b Banks 50
Butcher c Marshall b Washington 17
Collingwood st Ramdin b Mohammed 20
Thorpe not out 25
Read not out 0

Lawson 0/35
Washington 1/15
Rampaul 0/19
Mohammed 1/29
Banks 1/22
Bravo 0/1

Windies have one (possibly 2) bowling spots to fill for the next Test. Surely Sanford is done...

 

[Craig]

Trescothick was caught behind when the score was on 21, but it was a Lawson no-ball. For over-stepping, not chucking.

Cheers,

Mike

It had been for chucking I probably would of heard it by now even though I havent seen cricinfo.

It probably would of been mentioned during the NZ-SA Test.

 

[tooextracool]

is edwards fit again?

i think windies should go for best,lawson,powell and collins

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

is edwards fit again?

i think windies should go for best,lawson,powell and collins

Edwards is not fit and I really don't see what Collymore has done wrong. He's been the most consistent of the bowlers and offers solidity to the attack. How many times can one bowler beat the bat before he gets an edge?

 

[Craig]

So can we expect a spinner for the 3rd Test?

I guess a 100% fit Corey Collymore does make a difference to unfit one in South Africa and Zimbabwe (?).

Has Edwards bowled well in this series or still showing his in experience?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Edwards was brilliant in the first Test and took 3/72 ? after an opening spell of 2/23 ?. But then he went down with a back injury and missed the second Test.

 

[luckyeddie]

Edwards was by far the pick of the West Indies bowlers in the first test - very sharp and much more accurate than we witnessed in South Africa at times.

 

[marc71178]

Carib Beer XI 110-7 atm. Nice to see englands backup bowlers doing well and keeping pressure on the main lot.

Ironically Hoggard got the best figures and he's a starter!

Glad he did pick up a few actually, gives him a bit of confidence.

 

[marc71178]

Trescothick was caught behind when the score was on 21, but it was a Lawson no-ball. For over-stepping, not chucking.

I read this, and wondered, does this count in the First Chance averages?

 

[marc71178]

Corey Collymore bowled superbly yet again in the first innings, and yet again he was unsuccessful.

Sounds a lot like one Andrew Flintoff!

I assume the selectors will keep faith with him for now?

 

[PY]

I read this, and wondered, does this count in the First Chance averages?

Of course not, he knew it was a no-ball and so he thought these West Indian fellows needed a bit of catching practice.