*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[Scaly piscine]

Harmison top scores for England in the 2nd innings, I think that says it all.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Wish I could have seen Harmy knocking Pollock out of the attack. Anyway now that there's a decent break between this and the next Test I expect England's batsmen to sort themselves out and England to win 3-1, surely the brain-dead dismissals can't go on forever...

 

[wpdavid]

Wish I could have seen Harmy knocking Pollock out of the attack. Anyway now that there's a decent break between this and the next Test I expect England's batsmen to sort themselves out and England to win 3-1, surely the brain-dead dismissals can't go on forever...

Well, they've been on the increase throughout, so I don't hold too much hope of our batters starting to use their brains next time around. If anything, I think 3-1 to SA is more likely. I'll stick by what I said after Durban, that I can't see our attack taking 20 SA wickets for competitive scores on these tracks. Whereas we're always capable of giving it away, and seem determined to do exactly that at regular intervals.

Vaughan unquestionably has his biggest task since taking over the captaincy. For starters, he needs to get inside Harmy's head and get him to bowl straight more than twice an over. On form, our "spearhead" wouldn't play, but I guess we'll have to go on what he did last year and hope he can show up at some point. As for the batters, maybe Vaughan & Fletcher need to dop the words "Bell" & "Pietersen" into team talks more often to show these clowns that their places aren't carved in stone if they continue to play like they have done so far.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I don't see an problem with England taking 20 SA wickets really, they've taken 56 out of 60 so far on pitches where SA have won the toss every time and had the better times to bat.

 

[DocHead]

Yay! We won! And still, those bloody England fans wouldn't stop shouting and chanting. Bloody barmy, the lot of them.

It's too early for me to say SA are back in business, besides, the newspapers will take care of that tomorrow. Hopefully SA can build on this into Wanderers and Pretoria, maybe even take the series. One thing is clear for sure though, anyone who fancied England's chances against the Aussies were living on Cloud 9 ****oo Land. They're going to be absolutely slaughtered. It's going to be very enjoyable to watch. Mwahahahaha!

Charl Langeveldt suddenly isn't ruled out of the series, well, they managed to get Andre Joubert's broken hand sorted for the 1995 World Cup, maybe something similar here. It'd be interesting to see what happens if we need to bat out 20 mins to draw, or need 5 to win a test with 9 down, and the number 11 can only bat one handed. (No it wouldn't, I'd be mortified.)

Amla's form is a worry, but nobody has had any cricket in SA for a while. I'd take him over a 30 year old v. Jaarsveld who isn't really seriously in the frame. Maybe Andrew Hall can come back, gives the option of another bowler as well. Kallis was bowling nicely today, and he had some decent pace.

Will England drop Harmy? Please do, Jimmy Anderson hasn't had anything but nets for a while now, he's bound to be rusty.

Having passed the halfway mark of the series, suddenly SA's prospects are looking a lot rosier. Boje got some good bowling in, Kallis is threatening to fire again, we've got a bowler who swings it and we've squared a series that England should be 2-up in. England have a spearhead who's looking like he's missing St. James' Park, Happy Hooker Geraint, Vaughn can't buy a decent score. I'm annoyed that we let Harmison score that many runs, shouldn't be giving someone who's in a bit of a trough any reason to be cheerful. Ntini should've been given a license to rough him up a bit. It's going to be a tight run-in.

It's been raining for fun up on the highveld, hope it doesn't mess things up.

On another note, Geoff Boycott is an absolute stonking legend. Before England even started batting, he said they'd never even come close. Some of the jibes he aimed at the players were stingingly hillarious, even the SA ones. Not that he wasn't supporting England, he was first to give the 50/50's to England. Haysie mentioned that every time he had a stint, some English batter did something braindead, he reckoned they just did it to annoy him. Paul Allott on the other hand was so convinced England could save it, he probably still thinks they can. I'm really enjoying the commentary. SABC have their own Radio commentators, so no Blowers this time.

 

[Marius]

I wouldn't write off the English, but I think it is a lot harder for them to come back in an away series than in a home series, like they did against SA in 1998 and last year. I fancy South Africa's chances though, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Poms pull it back. At the beginning of the series I would have put money on the English to win, now my money's on South Africa. Hopefully Langeveldt is fir for the tests in Gauteng. If he is I would leave the team unchanged.

On a slightly off-topic note, no-one here seems to rate Amla. Mark my words, that boy is going to be good (remember the horrid start one JH Kallis had to his test career...)

 

[SJS]

England's big problem in batting is the number three spot.

Key is just not good enough for this position. If Butcher is unfit then either Thorpe or Vaughan himself should come at number three and the other of the two at four.

Harmison must bowl within the stumps. Its not a great thing that the captain and coach cant see needs be done and Harmison is a world class bowler, if he is told to do it and cant, then, and only then, he has no place in the side.

 

[Steulen]

I think Butcher isn't good enough either. If you look at the best batting line-ups, they have truly great batsmen at #3. Australia: Ponting, India: Dravid or Tendulkar. SA have a problem there as well, although Rudolph shows the potential. England need to find themselves someone else at #3, who has the potential to become as good as Ponting. Surely there must be one batsman in England who has that potential. Bell? Pietersen?

The second big problem is Vaughan. Listening to Boycot, it appears Vaughan has changed his batting technique a bit (more precisely; his trigger movement before playing his shots). This might mean he's not in a form slump, but an actual ability slump, which is far more serious of course.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Harmison has to get himself a test 50 one day! He's getting closer and closer at least!

 

[SJS]

I think Butcher isn't good enough either. If you look at the best batting line-ups, they have truly great batsmen at #3. Australia: Ponting, India: Dravid or Tendulkar. SA have a problem there as well, although Rudolph shows the potential. England need to find themselves someone else at #3, who has the potential to become as good as Ponting. Surely there must be one batsman in England who has that potential. Bell? Pietersen?

The second big problem is Vaughan. Listening to Boycot, it appears Vaughan has changed his batting technique a bit (more precisely; his trigger movement before playing his shots). This might mean he's not in a form slump, but an actual ability slump, which is far more serious of course.

I think you are right about Butcher. Its just that he has done reasonably at that position during the last year. An in form Vaughan would be best at number three.

Actually, if he wasnt doing so well as an opener, I would have said Strauss is tailor made for this pivotal position. But....

 

[Scaly piscine]

Harmison has to get himself a test 50 one day! He's getting closer and closer at least!

Yea, his new batting average will be virtually identical of that of Hoggard - Hoggard has a load more not outs and a lower best score as well... Simon Jones has a better average and better highest score than both of them.

 

[Anil]

Vaughan unquestionably has his biggest task since taking over the captaincy. For starters, he needs to get inside Harmy's head and get him to bowl straight more than twice an over.

vaughan also has to get inside his own head and get himself to bat for longer hours....

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Will England drop Harmy? Please do, Jimmy Anderson hasn't had anything but nets for a while now, he's bound to be rusty.

No such luck I'd think. I can't see Harmison being dropped any time soon.

I'm annoyed that we let Harmison score that many runs, shouldn't be giving someone who's in a bit of a trough any reason to be cheerful. Ntini should've been given a license to rough him up a bit. It's going to be a tight run-in.

I think that knock of Harmison's today could be just what he needs. He certainly looked like he had some fun toward the end of it.

 

[tooextracool]

Don't worry, you only have to see the wicket taking balls to have an opinion nowadays.

actually the scorecard is more than enough. from that we can judge precisely how badly the bowlers bowled and how lucky the batsmen were. figures dont lie you know.
oh wait i forgot about glenn mcgrath and chaminda vaas.

 

[tooextracool]

If it's helping the team, I couldn't care less.

yes play like this in the ashes and we'll lose 5-0.
actually we'll probably salvage a complementary win in the dead rubber game and lose 4-1.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes a return to form would be nice, but hey isn't this the same Vaughan as captain of England that went through the whole of 2004 unbeaten?

and who is to say that one of the other captains isnt capable of doing the same(i.e leading a talented side to victory) and yet having vaughan scoring runs for the side?

 

[tooextracool]

South Australia did it in a Sheffield Shield final once.

wow, something quite brilliant. nonetheless its never been achieved in test cricket, which is pretty much what this game was all about.

 

[tooextracool]

On another note, Geoff Boycott is an absolute stonking legend. Before England even started batting, he said they'd never even come close.

out of curiosity, how many people actually thought that england would come close?

 

[DocHead]

On a slightly off-topic note, no-one here seems to rate Amla. Mark my words, that boy is going to be good (remember the horrid start one JH Kallis had to his test career...)

I rate the boy Amla, he's going to be fab. I just hope they give him a longish run, so he can prove it one way or the other. We bat down to Boje, so there shouldn't be batting issues.

Scary thought for me, if he doesn't cement a spot, there'll be *no* established Natalians in the lineup when Polly retires. The Dolphins seem to be generating good 1st class players, but just not good enough for that last step up. Kent, Benkie, Amla (The other one, Ahmed), Tweedie, Mall. All have more than decent first class stats (except Ahmed Amla, his average has nosedived).

 

[tooextracool]

Key is just not good enough for this position. If Butcher is unfit then either Thorpe or Vaughan himself should come at number three and the other of the two at four.

oh commone now, key actually batted quite well until he played that absolutely appalling shot, certainly looked quite comfortable at the crease.
the problem lies at 4, where there actually doesnt seem to be any runs coming.