*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[BoyBrumby]

Jones, Thorpe and Giles are all capable of playing out a day between them, even Hoggy could if required.

I thought you meant Simon Jones there for a second & was going to take issue!

That said, has Geraint ever really scored big runs with pressure on? True, he was there at the end when we saved 4th Windies test, but to bat all day? Hmmm.

 

[savill]

He could do if he is batting with an experienced player such as Thorpe. This looks like a real test for Jones, and if he does well, I might be able to endure some of his keeping displays a bit more comfortable.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Not saying it's likely, but saying we have no chance is ridiculous until the Test is over, TEC.

 

[tooextracool]

Michael Vaughn's Captaincy? We haven't lost in a year, and when we're in a spot of bother he's the worst captain? His leadership is a major factor as to why England are raked number 2.

and his scoring, ever since hes taken over the captaincy his batting has dropped severely. the thing is that if someone else was given captaincy, would he still be able to lead a fairly talented side? tresco showed that he could.

 

[tooextracool]

Not saying it's likely, but saying we have no chance is ridiculous until the Test is over, TEC.

we dont have any realistic chance of winning this game, if no team has done it we wont. and its not like we have some brilliant batters in the side either.

 

[Tom Halsey]

it wont happen, i doubt that its ever happened. it was always impossible once they batted as stupidly as they did in the first inning. IMO it might be a tough decision, but surely there should be at least some scrutiny about vaughan remaining captain.

Yes, and they'd never batted that stupidly before, so I reckon it'll be a while until they do it again.

About Vaughan, please, he has the best record for an England captain with over a certain amount of Tests (can't remember exact number) IIRC. You're not dropping him because of that?!

 

[savill]

Ponting's form dropped with the captaincy as well. It is another pressure on a player, and I would be surprised if his average hadn't dropped, but still I didn't think it would drop as badly as it has.

 

[Tom Halsey]

we dont have any realistic chance of winning this game, if no team has done it we wont. and its not like we have some brilliant batters in the side either.

When did I ever say about winning the game?

We have a chance of getting something, obviously a draw. We have zilch chance of winning.

 

[tooextracool]

When did I ever say about winning the game?

We have a chance of getting something, obviously a draw. We have zilch chance of winning.

you know what i meant, we have no realistic chance of saving this game.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, and they'd never batted that stupidly before, so I reckon it'll be a while until they do it again.

if you think durban 1st innings was a while ago then yes they havent done that in a while.

About Vaughan, please, he has the best record for an England captain with over a certain amount of Tests (can't remember exact number) IIRC. You're not dropping him because of that?!

no its clearly not about the captaincy, he obviously is a brilliant captain, but its gotten to the point that he doesnt deserve a place in the side for his batting ATM, especially with the likes of key, bell and pieterson waiting. the question i ask is whether anyone else can captain the side nearly as well, because if anyone does that much we'll still be a pretty good side.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He is such a brilliant captain you can add a fair amount to his batting average for you to get his overall worth to the team - look at Brearly (mad moment, can't spell it for somereason).

 

[Tom Halsey]

if you think durban 1st innings was a while ago then yes they havent done that in a while.

On a VERY 2-paced wicket. It wasn't a 139 pitch, but they didn't bat stupidly. And when the pitch flattened out... they batted very stupidly to 550-7.

 

[tooextracool]

He is such a brilliant captain you can add a fair amount to his batting average for you to get his overall worth to the team - look at Brearly (mad moment, can't spell it for somereason).

i dont think hes anywhere near brearly, hes done a good job leading a talented english side. IMO its possible for someone else to lead the same side and achieve similar success and also have vaughan scoring runs. its certainly obvious that we cant go into the ashes with such a big liability at no 4.

 

[Tom Halsey]

you know what i meant, we have no realistic chance of saving this game.

No but it is still a chance... albeit a small one.

 

[tooextracool]

On a VERY 2-paced wicket. It wasn't a 139 pitch, but they didn't bat stupidly.

rubbish it was just as disgraceful with the happy hookers trying to hook every ball for 6.

And when the pitch flattened out... they batted very stupidly to 550-7.

and by durban 1st inning i meant 2nd?

 

[tooextracool]

No but it is still a chance... albeit a small one.

well you can hold on to your chance, that requires a miracle in geraint jones batting for twice as many balls as he has for all the balls hes survived for in the series combined. a miracle to achieve what i presume no team has done before, and a miracle in that they actually manage to apply themseleves.
anything that requires that many miracles is quite clearly impossible, its like saying harmison will do a kumble and take all 10 wickets next game,even though we both know that it wont happen.

 

[Tom Halsey]

i dont think hes anywhere near brearly, hes done a good job leading a talented english side. IMO its possible for someone else to lead the same side and achieve similar success and also have vaughan scoring runs. its certainly obvious that we cant go into the ashes with such a big liability at no 4.

The runs will come... have patience. In the WIndies, everyone wanted Tres out. Now look...

 

[SIX AND OUT]

Ponting's form dropped with the captaincy as well. It is another pressure on a player, and I would be surprised if his average hadn't dropped, but still I didn't think it would drop as badly as it has.

Expect the Ashes to be great, can't wait to watch it on AUSTAR here in Melbourne in OUR Winter.

Ricky Ponting - hasn't made a hundred since his two double hundred's in comsecutive matches (242 & 0 v IND at Adelaide; 257 v IND at Melbourne; 2003/04). He managed a 98 against the Pakistani's at Perth, but his form, and average have gone up to standards - he was out of form - but now - he is in bloody good form.

RT Ponting - AUS v PAK - 2004/05
1st Test - 25 & 98
2nd Test - 7 & 62*
3rd Test - 207 & 4*

403 runs @ 100.75

 

[tooextracool]

The runs will come... have patience. In the WIndies, everyone wanted Tres out. Now look...

and hes proved us wrong by scoring on seamer friendly wickets hasnt he?

we've had patience with vaughan for 1.5 years now, i'll give him till the end of the series, after which i will be calling for a new captain. its simply a waste of a career to see such a talented player's performances drop, simply because of shouldering the burden of captaincy. and who is to say that there isnt another perfectly good captain?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Have you forgotten the 3 Centuries this year then? Not fantastic but I'd much prefer him to stay captain.