*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[marc71178]

It was to rebutt your comment when you said South Africa havent performed well at home since the South Africa side has become less effective internationally.

Well maybe next time it would help if you actually rebutted what I posted then rather than something else?

 

[Pratters]

Well maybe next time it would help if you actually rebutted what I posted then rather than something else?

Correction, previous South African sides with the likes of Rhodes, Cullinan and Kirsten have been strong at home.

The one which bashed the Windies (which was weak but a huge marin isnt a meak achievment) last time around didnt have Rhodes, Cullinan

 

[marc71178]

And where has that said anything about them not beating WI?

All I said was that previous sides were strong, which is true, but those sides had a far better batting line-up as well as a certain Mr Donald in them.

This side is nowhere near as strong (from the openers down)

 

[Langeveldt]

far better batting line-up as well as a certain Mr Donald in them.

Yeah, damn right..

And it wasnt Ronald McDonald either..

 

[Pratters]

And where has that said anything about them not beating WI?

All I said was that previous sides were strong, which is true, but those sides had a far better batting line-up as well as a certain Mr Donald in them.

This side is nowhere near as strong (from the openers down)

When did I say any thign about them being as strong at home now as before? But they arent totally hopeless at home. Betaing the Windies showed that.

India had been pretty dram hopeless away from home in the 90s but they werent useless in home. I havent seen much to suggest South Africa will surrender meekly in home.

 

[tooextracool]

My point is that you completely contradicted youself.

no i didnt, i simply said that he doesnt have the best defensive technique, it doesnt mean that someone can survive for a few overs though. even someone like courtney walsh has had some fantastic last wicket partnerships.

 

[tooextracool]

Even though that's exactly what he did do?

yes which shows that anyone can do it.

 

[tooextracool]

What I said was "The subsequent ignoral of Adams sent the further message that if you do get a decent chance and you screw it up, you can just about forget about ever being called up again."

First, I said "just about" not "completely".

Second, I said "screw it up", which does not necessarily equate to "not score many runs (if a batsman)". It's perfectly possible to make 13 and 9 and look the goods although there's obviously a fair amount to be worked on, just as it's possible, though much less likely, to make 65 and look so awful that you never get picked again.

What matters in England's case is whether Fletcher and Miller think the player is good enough to play. The other point about keeping a guy in the side for a period is that you also get to work with him off the field, from which you can get a much more detailed idea about whether he is liable to be able to eradicate flaws you've spotted and end up making good on the promise you've identified. That experience as much as what goes on in actual Tests is what makes up the seelctors' minds.

They always knew that Flintoff was a potential winner, which is why they kept working with him for ages despite his relative lack of success on the field.

Cheers,

Mike

indeed. which all comes down to the fact that whether or not you dont actually score runs, but as long as you look good doing it, you'll still end up with a place in the side. which is precisely what most teams do if you ask me. but i really wonder how well that message was sent considering that players like anthony mcgrath, blackwell, clarke, even rob key(although hes done well since his return), have been picked recently despite really being complete failures for most of their initial careers. for me if someone shows improvement at the domestic level, id still pick him despite his being poor in his performances at the international level to date.

 

[tooextracool]

I have every right to get annoyed at that lot throwing their wickets away in the 1st innings for the 3rd straight Test - they get well paid to do their job and they aren't doing it. 95-4 on that pitch is an absolute joke.

and thats for those who thought that the first inning at durban was just a one time thing......

 

[tooextracool]

im suprised that not one person has brought up vaughans run scoring, or lack of it. captain or not, scores of 12,3,33,12,66,10,15,18,10,11 are simply not good enough.

 

[marc71178]

When did I say any thign about them being as strong at home now as before?

Erm, by making out that they're unbeatable at home?

 

[marc71178]

im suprised that not one person has brought up vaughans run scoring, or lack of it. captain or not, scores of 12,3,33,12,66,10,15,18,10,11 are simply not good enough.

Could it be that he's not in the place he would ideally be in the order?

But I can't see how we could put him back up the top though seeing as the openers are currently working so well together?

 

[Pratters]

Erm, by making out that they're unbeatable at home?

They are very much beatable at home by Australia. Not by England IMO. I never said they are as strong as before. They are still a force to be reckoned with at home though.

 

[Pratters]

Could it be that he's not in the place he would ideally be in the order?

But I can't see how we could put him back up the top though seeing as the openers are currently working so well together?

So what do you suggest?

 

[tooextracool]

Could it be that he's not in the place he would ideally be in the order?

But I can't see how we could put him back up the top though seeing as the openers are currently working so well together?

except that his scores at the top of the order since hes become captain were just as bad. regardless his mode of dismissals suggest that hed be worse at the top of the order.
its a tough decision, i was one who was never advocating vaughan as captain back in 03. unfortunately the team seem to be playing well under him and yet hes not performing with the bat.

 

[shaka]

England lose their 1st wicket of the day, Hoggard out caught by Smith off Ntini. for 1, current score: 97/5 off 40.1

 

[Pratters]

England lose their 1st wicket of the day, Hoggard out caught by Smith off Ntini. for 1, current score: 97/5 off 40.1

 

[shaka]

now its time for the danger men.

 

[tooextracool]

oh great, flintoff is back to his idiotic ways.....

 

[Pratters]

oh great, flintoff is back to his idiotic ways.....

cricinfo -42.5 Ntini to Flintoff, OUT: poor shot off the back foot cutting hard is
taken ever so easily by Gibbs at bwd point making one that had a
smoke trail on it look like it looped his way