*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[twctopcat]

I think the stage was set for Thorpe when he walked in this morning - it's the sort of situation he really thrives on.

I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it to 3 figures tomorrow - if Flintoff and Jones can both hang there for a while to let him get going then Giles and Hoggard can just dig in and avoid dismissal.

Definitely. Sounds as if thorpe was scratchy all day with plenty of played and missed shots. Thing with Thorpe is that half his career has been like that, he seems to survive, so it's more than just luck. So long as he survives the first half hour tomorrow morning (providing play occurs then) then 3 figures may well be on the cards.

 

[Arjun]

With Flintoff and Harmison advised to give the ODI series a miss, how will the England ODI side have a chance of winning? In the Natwest series,they struggled without Flintoff and clearly, they're dependent on those two way too much. Whom do they have as backup? Not too many trust Simon Jones in OD's.

 

[wpdavid]

With Flintoff and Harmison advised to give the ODI series a miss, how will the England ODI side have a chance of winning? In the Natwest series,they struggled without Flintoff and clearly, they're dependent on those two way too much. Whom do they have as backup? Not too many trust Simon Jones in OD's.

We'll probably struggle, but I'd rather lose all 7 ODI's if it means Flintoff & Harmison are fit for our summer. Given Harmy's lack of accuracy in the tests, it wouldn't make much sense to play him anyway.

I'm not against Jones playing in the ODI's. He's done a pretty good containing role and bowled accurately in thes tests, so lets have a look at him. I gather Hoggard's staying on as well.

 

[DocHead]

<Cries>

By the way, I didn't slink out the back door when it all went pear shaped. Didn't have internet access for that awe-inspiring collapse at the Wanderers.

Looks like those bloody Poms are going to win the series.

Geesters, why couldn't you just have read the script and gone home with a hard fought series loss, now I'm going to have to support Aussie for the ashes.

 

[BoyBrumby]

No-one has addressed the really serious issue:

WTF has Graeme Smith done to his hair?!?! Rubbed boot-polish in it?!

I never thought he'd find another way to make me dislike him more after giving evidence against Vaughan & dropped down the order to hide from Hoggy, but fair play to the fat fella, there it is!

 

[Scaly piscine]

England take the lead, Flintoff up to 50 sixes in his Test career (Cairns is on 87 I think). Looking better for the deserved 3-1 scoreline.

 

[Jono]

Double strike for SA, still a long way away from having a chance though.

 

[twctopcat]

And harmy isn't even in yet, jeez......

 

[Arjun]

We'll probably struggle, but I'd rather lose all 7 ODI's if it means Flintoff & Harmison are fit for our summer. Given Harmy's lack of accuracy in the tests, it wouldn't make much sense to play him anyway.

I'm not against Jones playing in the ODI's. He's done a pretty good containing role and bowled accurately in thes tests, so lets have a look at him. I gather Hoggard's staying on as well.

The English have struggled as a limited-overs side for a long time, given their form last year. The sooner they improve, the better. Kevin Pietersen and Ian Bell may have solved the batting problems, but there is a lack of balance without Flintoff. If Ian Bell can contribute at least 8 overs regularly, the fifth bowler problem may be solved, but he won't be as effective. The bowling attack will lack power without Flintoff and Harmison, given Gough's indifferent form and the inconsistency of the rest of the bowling attack.

 

[twctopcat]

The English have struggled as a limited-overs side for a long time, given their form last year. The sooner they improve, the better. Kevin Pietersen and Ian Bell may have solved the batting problems, but there is a lack of balance without Flintoff. If Ian Bell can contribute at least 8 overs regularly, the fifth bowler problem may be solved, but he won't be as effective. The bowling attack will lack power without Flintoff and Harmison, given Gough's indifferent form and the inconsistency of the rest of the bowling attack.

Harmison and Flintoff's injuries could turn out to be blessings in disguise if it means bell and pietersen get long run in's because these two guys are going to be two of the mainstays in this team for a long time IMO.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I think most of their 'poor form' in ODIs is simply because England are far more focused on the Test series rather than the ODI series - sure if it was the World Cup or Champions Trophy they really went for it, but we all know the ODI series are fairly meaningless.

 

[Jono]

So are you saying England don't treat their own ODI series (NWS) as meaningless?

 

[Arjun]

I think most of their 'poor form' in ODIs is simply because England are far more focused on the Test series rather than the ODI series - sure if it was the World Cup or Champions Trophy they really went for it, but we all know the ODI series are fairly meaningless.

No series is meaningless for a top side- look at Australia. They take every Test and ODI series very seriously, even if it is against Zimbabwe A or Bangladesh. That ODI's are meaningless is no excuse to underperform.

Harmison and Flintoff's injuries could turn out to be blessings in disguise if it means bell and pietersen get long run in's because these two guys are going to be two of the mainstays in this team for a long time IMO.

Harmison is no batsman, nor aree Bell and Pietersen strike bowlers. The batting is more or less settled, but bowling is a worry. You cannot rely on Paul Collingwood to bowl 10 overs all the time.

 

[Scaly piscine]

So are you saying England don't treat their own ODI series (NWS) as meaningless?

No I'm saying they take all ODI series as fairly meaningless - for the last few years they've given nearly all of their future Test players a go in ODI games, even guys like Key. I think they're used as preparation for Tests is basically the main gist of it. I'm sure they'll look for the World Cup in the future more tho.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I think most of their 'poor form' in ODIs is simply because England are far more focused on the Test series rather than the ODI series - sure if it was the World Cup or Champions Trophy they really went for it, but we all know the ODI series are fairly meaningless.

Yeah, it has nothing at all to do with being outplayed.

 

[wpdavid]

The English have struggled as a limited-overs side for a long time, given their form last year. The sooner they improve, the better. Kevin Pietersen and Ian Bell may have solved the batting problems, but there is a lack of balance without Flintoff. If Ian Bell can contribute at least 8 overs regularly, the fifth bowler problem may be solved, but he won't be as effective. The bowling attack will lack power without Flintoff and Harmison, given Gough's indifferent form and the inconsistency of the rest of the bowling attack.

All true, but I still wouldn't want to risk Harmy & Flintoff's injuries. Like you, I don't see Gough & Wharf being very effective in this series, so hopefully we'll learn something about Jones & Hoggard in this form of the game.

Actually, our form in the ondayers hasn't been a complete disaster in the past couple of years. We beat Pakistan & SA at home in 2003, as well as beating India & reaching the final of the ICC tourny in 2004. I know we've also turned in some terrible performances, but things haven't been all bad.

 

[wpdavid]

BTW am I alone in finding Jack Bannister almost criminally annoying today?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Yeah, it has nothing at all to do with being outplayed.

What a waste of time that post was... teams get outplayed they lose as result of it... Well done Einstein.

 

[BoyBrumby]

All true, but I still wouldn't want to risk Harmy & Flintoff's injuries. Like you, I don't see Gough & Wharf being very effective in this series, so hopefully we'll learn something about Jones & Hoggard in this form of the game.

I thought Hoggy was on the plane home after the tests? Or has that changed?

I think with Bell, Pietersen & Collingwood (maybe Tres & Vaughan himself at a push) we have enough of a "5th bowler" to cobble together 10 overs somewhere between the 15th & 40th overs.

 

[wpdavid]

I thought Hoggy was on the plane home after the tests? Or has that changed?

I think with Bell, Pietersen & Collingwood (maybe Tres & Vaughan himself at a push) we have enough of a "5th bowler" to cobble together 10 overs somewhere between the 15th & 40th overs.

I thought I read that he was staying due the injuries to Fred & Harmy.

BTW nice to see my forecast for today was completely wrong. Even with Jones gone, it's going to take quite an effort to lose it from here.