*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[wpdavid]

the 100 in the WI though was littered with dropped catches and the 4 innings before that were characteristic of the immature flintoff.

Yup, although it was only 3 innings before Antigua, FWIW. And he managed one good innings out of 6 in SL, IIRC. I don't know where this leaves us, because I can't see him coping physically being one of a four man attack, but there's no way he looks a test number 6 when he's facing a decent attack.

Still, I'm going to enjoy today. Great to see Vaughan battling through to make some runs at last. I wonder if he'll decare first thing and have a go at SA before the wicket dries out and/or he runs out of time.

 

[twctopcat]

He has lost it right from India's last tour of Australia

Too right, i remember when i rated him as the best around(not that that counts for much) but something has happened and he's lost the plot.

 

[wpdavid]

Very good fightback from Harmison and Vaughan but these batting collapses are becoming quite concerning. It's a good job Strauss is getting some runs for us.

Flintoff only bats one way and that's aggressively, unfortunately that means sometimes he gives his wicket away.

Finally, I have to question the decision regarding the light, surely they are only supposed to ask the batting team and not the fielding team unless it is causing a real danger to fielders. Am I wrong?

I'm afraid so. The captains agreed before this series that, under the lights, the fiedling side could go off if they're unhappy with the light.

 

[djwolf]

I'm afraid so. The captains agreed before this series that, under the lights, the fiedling side could go off if they're unhappy with the light.

Sorry but in my view it makes it wide open to be abused by the team who are struggling and want to hold up time. There should be a simple set rule, i.e if the light meter reads a certain amount the umpires bring the players off automatically.

 

[tooextracool]

They clearly believe that it is more likely to swing in Jo'burg, which is why they're giving Anderson a go: he didn't do too badly last time out either, and you can just as easily argue it was harsh to drop him in favour of Jones for PE.

im not so sure about that, anderson had 3 tests against the WI and it was only really in the last inning of the last test where he really looked like taking any wickets. and I think it could be said that jones was unlucky to have been dropped for that series, although he clearly wasnt bowling at his best in the first test.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Hopefully only a matter of a few hours, maybe he should move ahead of Hoggard in the batting order?

Nah, can't see that happening. I'd still back Hoggard as more likely to stick around with the recognised batsman and then for Harmy to come in an hour later and hit them all over the place. Since July, Harmison's averaging 28.83!

As for the light, there needs to be an ICC instruction soon because it's getting daft. To quote David Lloyd "t'oop north we'd nivver get any plåy" if these rules were applied in county/league cricket. Can't help thinking back to Karachi '99, either.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Can't help thinking back to Karachi '99, either.

Exceptionally good point; that was practically pitch-black. I haven't seen today's play tho, work earlier & shortly out for a half or seven!

How dark was it?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Nah, can't see that happening. I'd still back Hoggard as more likely to stick around with the recognised batsman and then for Harmy to come in an hour later and hit them all over the place. Since July, Harmison's averaging 28.83!

As for the light, there needs to be an ICC instruction soon because it's getting daft. To quote David Lloyd "t'oop north we'd nivver get any plåy" if these rules were applied in county/league cricket. Can't help thinking back to Karachi '99, either.

But then Harmison is more likely to get a 50 once he's in (which is the hard part with Harmy).

 

[twctopcat]

Exceptionally good point; that was practically pitch-black. I haven't seen today's play tho, work earlier & shortly out for a half or seven!

How dark was it?

According to Vaughan it was as good a light as there had been all day, hence his annoyance at bucknor etc.

 

[tooextracool]

Can't help thinking back to Karachi '99, either.

the game in karachi(assuming eng v pak) was in sept 2000.

 

[Hit4Six]

But then Harmison is more likely to get a 50 once he's in (which is the hard part with Harmy).

wow whose the better lanky bowler at getting those runs?!?

harmy vs gillespie?!?!?!

 

[marc71178]

All the evidence points to him being a bad track bully and a minnow basher.

Which somewhat overlooks the quality of the West Indian batting line up.

 

[marc71178]

Hopefully only a matter of a few hours, maybe he should move ahead of Hoggard in the batting order?

Actually I'd say no - Hoggard has more staying power, so if he's in with a top batsman, he's more likely to help that man.

Then, when the bowlers are fed up with him and have got him out, we get Harmo to unleash hell!

 

[marc71178]

I'm afraid so. The captains agreed before this series that, under the lights, the fiedling side could go off if they're unhappy with the light.

Yet ironically the Sun beamed out minutes after play was called off!

 

[superkingdave]

I thought playing conditions meant that they are only allowed to play on 30 mins after scheduled close of play anyway? wasnt it about 10 minutes before that

 

[marc71178]

Started 8.30, so latest it could finish was 4 - can't remember when it did finish though?

 

[superkingdave]

i left work at 3.50 and it finished before i got to the station at 4.05, maybe the playing conditions are different here than the other tests. I just saw the highlights and they showed the ground 10 minutes or so after they came off and it was bathed in bright sunlight.

Play begins at 8.00 tommorrow half an hour earlier - thats why i thought the playing conditions were half an hour extra at the start and at the end max.

 

[marc71178]

I'm not sure, but what is the idea tomorrow - slog for a while, or declare overnight?

 

[superkingdave]

Slog please

ive missed both the first 2 days (guess i was spoiled that the first 3 tests all started while i was off) so id love to see Vaughan put up his ton and Harmy get his maiden 50 with an on drive off Pollock for six, then Jimmy can play a couple of reverse sweeps. Declare/get out with half an hour before lunch for 500 - Harmy snares a couple in the period before lunch, SA go on to make 129 with Jimmy taking 3-17 and Harmy 5-42 and SA follow on, and are 4 down at the end of the day. If my football were to be cancelled that would be good aswell because i have to trek to Blackburn and my foot is a bit dodgy so it would be great if i could watch more of the cricket and then go see Latics beat Doncaster.

Anyway if all that were to happen it would be great.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I think we can get another 30 or 40 tomorrow morning in fairly quick time, a declaration could come round and bite us, in particular in terms of follow-on target should we get in amongst them early on. Ideally - Vaughan century and Harmo fifty and something in the region of 460-470 and then nip a couple out before lunch.