***Official*** England in Pakistan

[luckyeddie]

yes that right TEC, this arguement is getting out of hand. Has i said the last young batsman to have an outstanding debut series (Michael Clarke) since has been brought down to earth, so saying he better than an established test match player is ludacris...

Leave him alone. He's not quite come to terms with Trescothick being test class yet, so you'll have to wait until 2010 before Pietersen's accepted.

( )

 

[social]

You? Resort to sour grapes? Never.

(see my previous post, responding to your following one)

How is that sour grapes?*

KP offered chances

Aus werent good enough to capitalise

KP good enough to capitalise

Match drawn

Eng win Ashes

Please correct any of the above as you see fit





* unless your definition of sour grapes refers to anyone that doesnt break out the prayer mat, face Baseldon, and pray to the all-conquering English team 7 times a day

 

[Scaly piscine]

yes that right TEC, this arguement is getting out of hand. Has i said the last young batsman to have an outstanding debut series (Michael Clarke) since has been brought down to earth, so saying he better than an established test match player is ludacris...

According to that logic you should never replace any 'established' player til they retire because the new player can't possibly be better. As for Clarke he still looked the best of any Aussie batsmen in the Ashes - just he kept getting himself out after getting in. Anyways look at the Ashes... all those 'proven' Aussies against those 'unproven' English players... should have been 5-0 to Australia really...

 

[luckyeddie]

How is that sour grapes?*

KP offered chances

Aus werent good enough to capitalise

KP good enough to capitalise

Match drawn

Eng win Ashes

Please correct any of the above as you see fit





* unless your definition of sour grapes refers to anyone that doesnt break out the prayer mat, face Baseldon, and pray to the all-conquering English team 7 times a day

Just the 'phoney Englishman' bit - you know - like Andrew Symonds being a phon.... (walks away whistling) - yes, I know we've got loads of them (ok, try cough Keppler Nuclear-Wessels cough).

What's Basildon got to do with it anyway? Pride Park's in Derby - and you only have to pray 5 times a day nowadays. We're almost secular.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Being proven doesn't necessarily mean you are better, but it's ridiculous to say KP is better than an established batsman with a mid 40s average based on one series. It will be easier to judge his performance in a few series time. Based on one series, Brett Lee was a lethal bowler at test level capable of destroying a quality batting linup and McGrath and Warne were completely rubbish.

 

[DaBombayDuck]

now how is a 43 average for a player who plays most of his matches at home bad??, dont see how...

Check Laxman's average since 2001 - its a better indication of how good a player he is.
In fact for a period of 30 matches - he averaged 63 - That's decidedly world class.

His overall average is skewed by the fact that he was rather stupidly forced to open the innings in the early part of his career.

I just cannot see how anyone could possibly label Laxman as an average player.

 

[social]

Just the 'phoney Englishman' bit - you know - like Andrew Symonds being a phon.... (walks away whistling) - yes, I know we've got loads of them (ok, try cough Keppler Nuclear-Wessels cough).

What's Basildon got to do with it anyway? Pride Park's in Derby - and you only have to pray 5 times a day nowadays. We're almost secular.

Cut from the same cloth - any Aussie who wont admit to the fact that Kepler only declared allegiance to Aus because SA were excluded from international cricket at the time is seriously delusional.

Likewise, KP is only playing for Eng because he thought he was being discriminated against at home.

As for "phoney Englishman" bit, there's nothing phoney or English about it - he's South African but plying his professional trade for another country. If that's what it took to gain a foothold in international cricket, good luck to him

 

[DaBombayDuck]

BTW, I don't dispute KP is a superb talent for England.

I realised when I saw him play in the Duleep trophy in India in 2004, that he was going to be pretty special.

 

[DaBombayDuck]

Which is a better attack :-

1. Mcgrath, Warne, Gillespie, Kaspa
2. Mcgrath, Warne, Lee, Fleming
3. Mcgrath (half fit), Lee, Tait, Warne.

Laxman's 281 was definitely played against a better attack and on a wearing Eden Gardens wicket as well.

 

[luckyeddie]

Cut from the same cloth - any Aussie who wont admit to the fact that Kepler only declared allegiance to Aus because SA were excluded from international cricket at the time is seriously delusional.

Likewise, KP is only playing for Eng because he thought he was being discriminated against at home.

As for "phoney Englishman" bit, there's nothing phoney or English about it - he's South African but plying his professional trade for another country. If that's what it took to gain a foothold in international cricket, good luck to him

Agreed. Saying that, I can never blame Pietersen for taking the action he did - he obviously had more confidence in his own ability than (he perceived) those around him did. If someone else took a similar decision in the future but chose to play for Australia or anyone else against England - so be it.

 

[DaBombayDuck]

I only saw highlights of Laxman's, but whilst it may have been a better innings, it wasn't played in the cauldron of intensity KP's occurred in.

Cauldron of intensity = the Eden Garden stadium, 100,000 screaming Bengalis, the last frontier about to be conquered, Mcgrath Gillespie Warne and Kaspa (all fully fit) and only Laxman and Dravid standing in the way.

 

[luckyeddie]

Cauldron of intensity = the Eden Garden stadium, 100,000 screaming Bengalis, the last frontier about to be conquered, Mcgrath Gillespie Warne and Kaspa (all fully fit) and only Laxman and Dravid standing in the way.

We're all arguing chalk against cheese. Laxman and McDravid's partnership was one of the greatest ever, Pietersen's afternoon romp was totally different in context and solo in nature - utterly remarkable and jaw-droppingly awesome in every way, but by no means a great, classic knock.

 

[DaBombayDuck]

As for Laxman's innings "against a better bowling attack in worse batting conditions" - rubbish.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

We're all arguing chalk against cheese. Laxman and McDravid's partnership was one of the greatest ever, Pietersen's afternoon romp was totally different in context and solo in nature - utterly remarkable and jaw-droppingly awesome in every way, but by no means a great, classic knock.

Collingwood and Giles didn't get enough runs to get the glory, but they certainly had the guts. I wouldn't call it "solo in nature" per se.

 

[nehrafan]

This part of your post is gonna stay in my signature at least till the end of PAK-ENG ODI series.Enough humiliation for an idiot like nehrafan even if series ends at 1-1 draw.

I don't understand why you are upset at me, whe i said that Pakistan don't have the potential and the talent to stand up against England , i was basically comparing the two sides.

England is far ahead of Pak in world cricket, just look at the ICC test rating and you will see England at the upper end and Pakistan down the barrel just above minnows, what do you think it suggests?? Pakistan do have some talented players and i have good wishes with them but unfortunately they aren't just good enough for a champion side like England.

 

[social]

As for Laxman's innings "against a better bowling attack in worse batting conditions" - rubbish.

Correct, I should have said, "much better attack."

 

[nehrafan]

Now lets compare England & India

Strauss/Sehwag.........................................Strauss is miles ahead
Trescothick/Gambhir...................................Trescothick,no comparison
Vaughan/Dravid..........................................Dravid is slightly ahead.
Bell/Tendulkar............................................Tendulkar is miles ahead
KP/Laxman................................................KP
Flintoff/Kaif or Yuvraj....................................Flintoff by a mile
Jones/Karthik or Dhoni.................................Jones is slightly ahead
Harmison or Jones/Pathan............................Both are miles ahead of Pathan
Giles/Harbhajan...........................................Both r average
Hoggard/Nehra.............................................Hoggard
Anderson/Zaheer/Balaji.................................Anderson

They may be able to make some runs,ut I don't see Indian attack taking 20 wickets in 3 matches.Even the Bangladesh or Zimbabwe's bowling line up is better than that of India.

What is the purpose of all this ? Is england playing India?

I did player to player comparison of England and Pakistan team in response to your claim that Pakistan will actually beat Engalnd in comming series, so that one can easily make out as to which side was well poised to take the series.

And if i said that KP is better than Youhanna then its a matter of opinion and you shouldn't get so touchy about it. I hope at the end of Eng-Pak series, you will also start appreciating the talent of class of KP

 

[Shoaib]

I don't understand why you are upset at me, whe i said that Pakistan don't have the potential and the talent to stand up against England , i was basically comparing the two sides.

England is far ahead of Pak in world cricket, just look at the ICC test rating and you will see England at the upper end and Pakistan down the barrel just above minnows, what do you think it suggests?? Pakistan do have some talented players and i have good wishes with them but unfortunately they aren't just good enough for a champion side like England.

I'm not upset at all but your posts do annoy me because 90% of your posts r anti-Pakistan(containing feelings of hatred for Pakistani nation) & fall firmly into the flame bait category.If I'm wrong on these points,then why r 99% of your posts in Pakistan related thread?.Definately.beause u come here for only one pupose i.e flame baiting Pakistani forum members & u have been warned for couple of times for doing this. I suggest that u care about your own team rather than Pakistan because this board doesn't need your expert comments on Pakistan.y the way,from now onwards,I'm neither gonna reply nor get heated up on your posts which r full of idiotics & ********.U will be on my ignore list from now onwards.I have finally realized that replying to idiots is of no use & it also wastes my precious time.

 

[luckyeddie]

Collingwood and Giles didn't get enough runs to get the glory, but they certainly had the guts. I wouldn't call it "solo in nature" per se.

Agreed, but of course it was of (especially in Collingwood's case) "desperate rearguard action" in nature.

 

[Jono]

Correct, I should have said, "much better attack."

LOL!

I can't believe one could claim that with McGrath not even 100% fit, and Shaun Tait playing his 2nd test, that the 5th test of the Ashes had a better Australian attack than back in 2001 at Eden Gardens.