***Official*** England in Pakistan

[Go_India]

So the likes of Pietersen and Flintoff aren't destructive then?

Not as much as Gilchrist, sehwag, Dhoni etc.. they have to proove themselfs first

 

[marc71178]

England deservedly won the Ashes but their victory was based around consistently excellent performances by a core group of players with others chipping in occasionally.

Core group?

Every player in the regular 11 contributed well in at least one game - Right from Trescothick down to Harmison.

 

[marc71178]

Right, so please tell us how Dhoni has proved himself, but Flintoff and Pietersen haven't (given that the discussion is about Test matches, and Dhoni is yet to even play one)

 

[Go_India]

Right, so please tell us how Dhoni has proved himself, but Flintoff and Pietersen haven't (given that the discussion is about Test matches, and Dhoni is yet to even play one)

oh no marcs back again

Ok you can always tell the potential of a player, even if u compare them in ODI's u can tell Dhoni has scored alot of runs at a rate of only 102.

 

[Swervy]

oh no marcs back again

Ok you can always tell the potential of a player, even if u compare them in ODI's u can tell Dhoni has scored alot of runs at a rate of only 102.

but surely KP and Flintoff have proved to be just as effective

 

[Go_India]

but surely KP and Flintoff have proved to be just as effective

probably, but i am not very sure about that SWERVY, i feel when its comes to potential dhoni has got it more. I can tell very easily.

 

[marc71178]

Ok you can always tell the potential of a player, even if u compare them in ODI's u can tell Dhoni has scored alot of runs at a rate of only 102.

So Pietersens 786 runs @ 99.49 (not to mention an average of 87.33) is obviously terrible in comparison to Dhoni (525 runs @ 102.53, average of 37.50)

 

[marc71178]

probably, but i am not very sure about that SWERVY, i feel when its comes to potential dhoni has got it more. I can tell very easily.

But you've said that Flintoff and Pietersen aren't as proven as Dhonim when Dhoni has never even played a Test match!

 

[Go_India]

So Pietersens 786 runs @ 99.49 (not to mention an average of 87.33) is obviously terrible in comparison to Dhoni (525 runs @ 102.53, average of 37.50)

i didnt say pietersen is terrible, i feel he is very talented. But dhoni came in when india had batting problems, and he proved to be very vital.

 

[Go_India]

But you've said that Flintoff and Pietersen aren't as proven as Dhonim when Dhoni has never even played a Test match!

I meant in ODI's, but cant u tell marc that dhoni has enormous amount of talent?

 

[greg]

Honestly, for me, the better keeper has to be selected, plain and simple. Geraint looks very bad and it isn't inconceivable that he may drop a rather simple but vital catch in the subcontinent or in the WC or in some other important match. For ODIs, I can understand the logic behind selecting someone like Jones, but for tests, you always pick your best keeper.

It's just the usual balance. Probably a good keeper is less important in a team which creates more than enough chances to bowl the opposition out. Look at the Ashes series. For all his multiple dropped catches only one arguably had any impact on the match - the drop of Warne at Old Trafford. Whereas the runs he scored at Old Trafford and Trent Bridge were crucial. In a poor (bowling) team, a good keeper is far more important - dropped catches are far more costly.

 

[greg]

i didnt say pietersen is terrible, i feel he is very talented. But dhoni came in when india had batting problems, and he proved to be very vital.

Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the circumstances in which Pietersen has batted in ODI cricket.

As for Flintoff... one of the best players (without doubt) in ODI cricket. Hmmm.

 

[Go_India]

Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the circumstances in which Pietersen has batted in ODI cricket.

As for Flintoff... one of the best players (without doubt) in ODI cricket. Hmmm.

probably, but Dhoni will prove u guys wrong when he plays against England.

And whats so ?

 

[nehrafan]

The point that was made in the series was that this was the first time this Australian line-up had faced such a hostile, all-round attack and they were found wanting.

First of all i wasn't talking about THIS VERY Australian batting line up, i was talking about the batting lineup of Australian team that has dominated the cricket world for years and which had world class batsmen like Steven Waugh,Mark Waugh, Langer etc.

Even before this series Australia had come accross a very good bowling attack of Pakistan. I remember Pakistan playing with Akram, Waqar,Saqlain and Mohd Akram and that had Australia in trouble but Australia still came on top.So to say that this was the first time that the Australian ever came accross a quality hostile attack is not true, nor is the assumption that Australia didn't had world class batting lineup all these years.

I think Australia struggled against England, because English team happen to be a very good one and also because there has been an age related decline in the performance of key Australian players

 

[Go_India]

Absolutely yes to your signatures question Nehrafan.

 

[nehrafan]

Absolutely yes to your signatures question Nehrafan.

 

[greg]

probably, but Dhoni will prove u guys wrong when he plays against England.

And whats so ?

If you make assertions about whether batsman have made their runs in difficult or easy situations (Pietersen) you really should check out the scorecards first.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Yes they didn't had any quality spinner, but they played with 4 world class pacers, and even though England too play with 4 pacers, the English pacers are not in the same class of the great WI pacers!!!

Well, yes. Who is saying otherwise?

 

[Go_India]

If you make assertions about whether batsman have made their runs in difficult or easy situations (Pietersen) you really should check out the scorecards first.

I dont care what scorecards say, did u know he was dropped thrice in the begining? And 2 of them, even i could have caught them. Australia have lost it, they should serioulsy drop the likes of Martyn to stand any chance of beating the world 11. Which they have done now

 

[greg]

I dont care what scorecards say, did u know he was dropped thrice in the begining? And 2 of them, even i could have caught them. Australia have lost it, they should serioulsy drop the likes of Martyn to stand any chance of beating the world 11. Which they have done now

Eh? Make your mind up. We were talking about ODIs a moment ago.