***Official*** England in Pakistan

[greg]

naaaaa just making a valid enough point dawg....

Nobody questions Windian dominance in the eighties, yet they didn't win a world cup after 1979 (and weren't even competitive after 1983). Their preference for picking a whole host of bowlers who couldn't really bat caught up with them.

And seeing as England (like other teams) will presumably be using one-day games to experiment with the new (ridiculous) regulations on subs etc and with their side in general in preparation for the World cup (whilst presumably continuing their longstanding policy of using the one-day game as a useful way for testing out potential test players) I don't really see why anyone would attach much significance to individual country/country series. Like I said most English fans (and even the England management) don't see the vast majority of one day games, outside the World Cup, as being particularly important in terms of results. Even the Champions Trophy last year was seen as far more important for the semi-final defeat of Australia as a precursor to the Ashes, than whether we actually won the final or not.

 

[marc71178]

Definetly, India has some good emerging players and by some time (maybe 5/6 months) we can become very near enough to no1.

The gap means it'll be much nearer 5-6 years (if even that soon)

You still have no pace bowlers.

 

[C_C]

The gap means it'll be much nearer 5-6 years (if even that soon)

You still have no pace bowlers.

And England has no spin bowler.
Point ?
India has some up and comming bowlers in Irfan Pathan and Balaji, who look far more promising than any english bowler at this time, albeit the english bowlers are far more developed.
-----------------

Nobody questions Windian dominance in the eighties, yet they didn't win a world cup after 1979 (and weren't even competitive after 1983). Their preference for picking a whole host of bowlers who couldn't really bat caught up with them.

Err... WI had a few bad world cups ( and if it wasnt for Courtney Walsh's fairplay-the greatest example of fairplay and gentlemanship I've ever seen in the game) but they were far from 'not competitive' in ODI cricket....( i am guessing you are talking about ODI cricket)....their record post 83 till 93/94 or so was excellent.

 

[venomous]

English pacers: Jones,Harmison,Flintoff,Hoggard and Collinwood.

Pakistani pacers:Akhtar, eratic Sami, hopeless Rana Naveed, chucker Shabbir ...Basically except for Akhtar all are rubbish.

As far as batting is concerned, England have two solid openers while Pakistan are still struggling to find a single good opener, their middle order batting though is almost as good as that of England.

As far as spin is concerned, Danish is not much better than Giles.

As such i see no reason for England not to thrash Pak 3-0 in test matches!

"Pakistani pacers:Akhtar, eratic Sami, hopeless Rana Naveed, chucker Shabbir ...Basically except for Akhtar all are rubbish."

Nice, what a way to describe pak bowlers...is this really coming from an Indian...I think these were the bowlers who troubled India through out the series...and they are way better than Indian bowlers, who can't even bowl out Zimb!

I do agree with you calling Shabbir a chucker, but how on earth cld u say hopeless Rana?? He was the leading wicket taker in India, and these days he's doing prefectly well in county cricket...and I am pretty sure he ll trouble England too....so check out the facts before posting useless junk. And since when Giles became better than Danish?..Danish is way ahead of him!!....with Akthar, Rana, Sami, Gul, & Razzaq...I believe Pak pace attack is as good as England's, but well at the end only time will justify who's better..so let's wait & see.

 

[Scaly piscine]

with Akthar, Rana, Sami, Gul, & Razzaq...I believe Pak pace attack is as good as England's

Hahahahahaha

England's worst pace bowler (which ever one that is) is streets ahead of any of the Pakistan bowlers bar Shoaib Akhtar.

 

[venomous]

Hahahahahaha

England's worst pace bowler (which ever one that is) is streets ahead of any of the Pakistan bowlers bar Shoaib Akhtar.

hmmm....Arrogance and ignorance at its best...No wonder who taught you how to reverse swing!

 

[C_C]

England's worst pace bowler (which ever one that is) is streets ahead of any of the Pakistan bowlers bar Shoaib Akhtar.

Perhaps.
But England and Pakistan as a bowling unit are pretty close - Pakistan has clearly a superior spinner by a country mile and Akhtar is still arguably better than any English pacer currently.
I would say that England's marginal advantage over PAK as a bowling unit is the fact that they employ a fulltime 5th bowler and have developed as a group pretty well.
But i wouldnt strike out Pakistan when it comes to bowling, especially pace bowling.
Akhtar still has a few years left in him and Umer Gul(last i saw him vs IND) has some excellent potential- i would rate Gul and Pathan along with Franklin and Jerome Taylor as the three best potentials in the under 25 category. Rana is doughty and they have some excellent potentials comming up in their youngster categories - Ali Imran is one of the best under 20 bowlers I've ever seen and Mansoor whatzizname is an excellent under 20 spinner as well.... i know its a long way from potential to performance but i wouldnt write off Pakistan's bowling prowess- they've proved over the past 20-25 years that they are second only to West Indies of that period.

 

[Scaly piscine]

hmmm....Arrogance and ignorance at its best...No wonder who taught you how to reverse swing!

England's pace quartet turned Australia's batsmen into quivering wrecks, I think it's fair to say that they were better than Australia's pace attack, and so much better than Pakistan's pace attack. Note that I meant to say Pakistan pace bowlers in #245.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Perhaps.
But England and Pakistan as a bowling unit are pretty close - Pakistan has clearly a superior spinner by a country mile and Akhtar is still arguably better than any English pacer currently.
I would say that England's marginal advantage over PAK as a bowling unit is the fact that they employ a fulltime 5th bowler and have developed as a group pretty well.
But i wouldnt strike out Pakistan when it comes to bowling, especially pace bowling.
Akhtar still has a few years left in him and Umer Gul(last i saw him vs IND) has some excellent potential- i would rate Gul and Pathan along with Franklin and Jerome Taylor as the three best potentials in the under 25 category. Rana is doughty and they have some excellent potentials comming up in their youngster categories - Ali Imran is one of the best under 20 bowlers I've ever seen and Mansoor whatzizname is an excellent under 20 spinner as well.... i know its a long way from potential to performance but i wouldnt write off Pakistan's bowling prowess- they've proved over the past 20-25 years that they are second only to West Indies of that period.

No, England and Pakistan as a bowling unit are not pretty close. Pakistan have two quality bowlers and that's it and one of those struggles to bowl 15 overs in a day. Pakistan have better part-time bowlers, and they'll probably be fairly useful. Also who gives a stuff about potential and 20-25 years ago when we're comparing current bowling attacks? Pakistan always has buckets of potential but they don't always do much with it.

 

[C_C]

No, England and Pakistan as a bowling unit are not pretty close. Pakistan have two quality bowlers and that's it and one of those struggles to bowl 15 overs in a day.

Akhtar's overs/match average : 29.55
Flintoff's over/match average: 29.78
Jones's over/match average : 26.12

I dont see you saying that Flintoff and Jones struggle to bowl 15 overs in a day.
Stop dealing with empty perceptions and deal with facts please.

And yes, i think Pakistan's bowling attack is inferior at the moment but i put that down to England having 5 bowlers over anything else really.

 

[badgerhair]

"Pakistani pacers:Akhtar, eratic Sami, hopeless Rana Naveed, chucker Shabbir ...Basically except for Akhtar all are rubbish."

Nice, what a way to describe pak bowlers...is this really coming from an Indian...I think these were the bowlers who troubled India through out the series...and they are way better than Indian bowlers, who can't even bowl out Zimb!

I do agree with you calling Shabbir a chucker, but how on earth cld u say hopeless Rana?? He was the leading wicket taker in India, and these days he's doing prefectly well in county cricket...and I am pretty sure he ll trouble England too....so check out the facts before posting useless junk. And since when Giles became better than Danish?..Danish is way ahead of him!!....with Akthar, Rana, Sami, Gul, & Razzaq...I believe Pak pace attack is as good as England's, but well at the end only time will justify who's better..so let's wait & see.

I saw Naved and Mushy demolish Middlesex twice in a day a few weeks ago, and I was very impressed with Naved. I suspect that the other Pak pace bowlers can all be assaulted, and we have the firepower at the top of the order to do it. If Showpony Akhtar could ever get his act together for more than half a spell before limping off, it might be different, of course.

I think this series is going to be more of a test of the relative batting strengths of the two sides. Inzy is trhe best batsman on show from either side at present, but I'd currently rate the England top order overall as rather better than Pakistan's.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Choora]

No, England and Pakistan as a bowling unit are not pretty close. Pakistan have two quality bowlers and that's it and one of those struggles to bowl 15 overs in a day. it.

Yeah but in those 15 overs he does the job !!! So what if he doesn't bowl 25-30 overs in a day everytime, as long as he takes 3-4 wkts in a 10 over spell he's just good enough!

 

[Choora]

Hahahahahaha

England's worst pace bowler (which ever one that is) is streets ahead of any of the Pakistan bowlers bar Shoaib Akhtar.

Thats pure arrogance . and arrogance is never good


The worst english bowler , either Hoggard or Collinwood are not so great that they can be said to be street ahead of any Pak pacers.

Cricket is a strange game, you never know someone like Umar Gul might end up as the better bowler in the Eng-Pak series.

 

[Sanz]

Bob Woolmer on the upcoming series :-

"England have beaten Australia but there is not an aura of invincibility about England yet and if we put up a disciplined effort we can burst their Ashes bubble....England have done well in Test cricket recently but they still need to create that aura of invincibility of the West Indies of 1970s and 80s and of recent Australia....I think it's going to be a very hard fought series, and if England have done well recently, we have also been shaping up well and can pose a real challenge.....The side which does well in all three departments will win the series and we have to be very disciplined against England who have quality bowlers and batsmen. I am pleased with the strength and fitness of my team. We have been training for a month now and this has made it possible for us to compete very, very severely."

 

[honestbharani]

i'll be totally convinced that this could be the era of the English of dominating world cricket in test & ODI's once they do these taks within the next 14 months:

- win both the test & ODI's in PAK

- win both test & ODI's in India

- beat SRI & PAK at home next season & aslo win the ODI's

- do well in the ICC champions

- win the ashes in AUS & challenge australia in the VB series if not win it...

So, in essence, you mean to say that they should win everything..

 

[greg]

Err... WI had a few bad world cups ( and if it wasnt for Courtney Walsh's fairplay-the greatest example of fairplay and gentlemanship I've ever seen in the game) but they were far from 'not competitive' in ODI cricket....( i am guessing you are talking about ODI cricket)....their record post 83 till 93/94 or so was excellent.

Pretty obvious I was talking about World Cups I would have thought. Anyway it was only a throw away comment, my point was that everyone regards them as the dominant force throughtout the eighties regardless of them not winning everything in sight in the one-day game. Like I said, I get the impression that Aussie is laying total one day dominance down as a criterion because that is what Australia have achieved over their golden period. So he is preparing in advance the claim that (in the event that England sweep all before them in the test arena) "their dominance cannot compare with Australian dominance because they are useless at one day cricket".

 

[marc71178]

England's worst pace bowler (which ever one that is)

That's a bit of a conundrum actually.

Just as they all take turns leading the attack with a superb spell, they all take turns as worst one!

 

[Go_India]

The gap means it'll be much nearer 5-6 years (if even that soon)

You still have no pace bowlers.

We do, its just the matter of experience. Once they are used to test cricket then it will be a totally different side. Marc why cant you ever accept some realities. The thing u do is look at the figures, and right now figures wont tell u everything about the current Indian bowling talent.

 

[marc71178]

So which is the great hope then?

Is it Zaheer with his average of 38.61 or Pathan with his average of 47.22?

They may not tell you everything, but they certainly don't say quality.

 

[Go_India]

So which is the great hope then?

Is it Zaheer with his average of 38.61 or Pathan with his average of 47.22?

They may not tell you everything, but they certainly don't say quality.

marc again u bring on the figures, i didnt say they were very lethal ATM. They have alot of potential, u have to accept that. And i can surely see Indian bowling line improving as these bowlers get more expereince.