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***Official*** England in Pakistan

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
So which is the great hope then?

Is it Zaheer with his average of 38.61 or Pathan with his average of 47.22?

They may not tell you everything, but they certainly don't say quality.
Considering your selective criteria (and that Harmison hasn't played Pak, Pathan hasn't played WI, NZ ) - how much does Harmison avg. against SA & Australia ? Let me guess his bowling avg. against SA is an impressive 60 and against australia it is 38 and at 26 I would assume he has either reached his peak or is almost there, otoh Pathan is only 20 and has a lot to develop both physically and mentally.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
C_C said:
Akhtar's overs/match average : 29.55
Flintoff's over/match average: 29.78
Jones's over/match average : 26.12

I dont see you saying that Flintoff and Jones struggle to bowl 15 overs in a day.
Stop dealing with empty perceptions and deal with facts please.
Irrelevant statistics, but useless waffle is about all you seem to come out with looking at some of the other threads.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Sanz said:
Considering your selective criteria (and that Harmison hasn't played Pak, Pathan hasn't played WI, NZ ) - how much does Harmison avg. against SA & Australia ? Let me guess his bowling avg. against SA is an impressive 60 and against australia it is 38 and at 26 I would assume he has either reached his peak or is almost there, otoh Pathan is only 20 and has a lot to develop both physically and mentally.
Since you ask, the equivalent figure is 31.85 - not the best, but far from being either 38.61 or 47.22!
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Scaly piscine said:
Irrelevant statistics, but useless waffle is about all you seem to come out with looking at some of the other threads.
Whilst I agree CC relies on useless statistics on many occasions, those statistics of overs per match seem pretty damn relevant to me. Someone criticised Akhtar in regards to how many overs he bowls, so he replied with those stats.

Now mabye stats in regards to how many overs per match Akhtar has bowled since 2003 or something may be more relevant if their argument was that Akhtar bowls less in recent times.
 

PY

International Coach
C_C said:
I dont see you saying that Flintoff and Jones struggle to bowl 15 overs in a day.
Didn't Flintoff bowl 18 overs-odd on the fourth morning of the 5th Test recently? :mellow:
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
Since you ask, the equivalent figure is 31.85 - not the best, but far from being either 38.61 or 47.22!
Hardly an equivalent figure. I assume you have included WI, NZ stats also, Has Pathan played against NZ, WI ? NO.

Harmison averages 60 against SA in 9 tests about 38.61 against australia, hardly anything to brag about and I dont understand how you can say it is far from 38.61 or 47.22.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Jono said:
Whilst I agree CC relies on useless statistics on many occasions, those statistics of overs per match seem pretty damn relevant to me. Someone criticised Akhtar in regards to how many overs he bowls, so he replied with those stats.

Now mabye stats in regards to how many overs per match Akhtar has bowled since 2003 or something may be more relevant if their argument was that Akhtar bowls less in recent times.
They're not relevant because he's comparing overs per MATCH when I was on about how many overs he could bowl in a day. Flintoff has played games where he couldn't bowl, he's also played in games earlier in his career where he wasn't the main bowler like Shoaib. Simon Jones has been the 4/5th bowler and is used sparingly, although that might change. Also the overs per MATCH don't take into consideration other things like how long teams bat against them, look at how quickly England have run through teams when they've been bowling recently - that would obviously reduce an oves per match figure, as does being in a 5 man attack.
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Shoaib was hardly the main bowler in the first half of his career. Wasim/Waqar/Saqlain were. It's laughable when some people come up with ridiculous logics to prove their ridiculous posts. :)

I dont know how long Harmison/Flintoff/Jones would last in the scorching heat of Multan, Nagpur, Ahmedabad etc. I hope they get to play at those venues.
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
Scaly piscine said:
England's pace quartet turned Australia's batsmen into quivering wrecks, I think it's fair to say that they were better than Australia's pace attack, and so much better than Pakistan's pace attack. Note that I meant to say Pakistan pace bowlers in #245.
Pakistan's bowlers troubled Australia too. They had them 78 for 5 at one point - Australia passed that score for five wickets in all the Tests they played in England.

Then Langer hit a ton, Shoaib broke down, and everything went to pot.
 

Legglancer

State Regular
Scaly piscine said:
Irrelevant statistics, but useless waffle is about all you seem to come out with looking at some of the other threads.
Some people should really take a good look at a mirror !
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Irrelevant stats, Pakistan isn't going to play england on Aussie pitches. Infact they will be playing England in Pakistan and here is how they performed at home -

vs. SA -
Akhtar @16.33, Shabir @ 24.00, Kaneria @25.36, Razzaq @27.60, Malik @36.60

Vs. India -
Gul @16.00, Kaneria @ 35.42, Akhtar@42.42

Vs. SL -
Akhtar @21.87, Kaneria @24.00, Sami @29.75
 

C_C

International Captain
marc71178 said:
So which is the great hope then?

Is it Zaheer with his average of 38.61 or Pathan with his average of 47.22?

They may not tell you everything, but they certainly don't say quality.
Pathan.
The guy is 20 years old and has displayed a lot of potential for a 20 year old. But then again, i would expect you to know more about bowling potential than Wasim Akram.
8-)
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
Pathan.
The guy is 20 years old and has displayed a lot of potential for a 20 year old. But then again, i would expect you to know more about bowling potential than Wasim Akram.
8-)
weren't you the one saying stats are everything?
 

C_C

International Captain
They're not relevant because he's comparing overs per MATCH when I was on about how many overs he could bowl in a day. Flintoff has played games where he couldn't bowl

Then why dont you provide the overs/day figures before you shoot off your mouth ?
And Akhtar has played matches where he bowled sparingly as well- practically the first 2-3 years of his career, when he was in the shadow of the two Ws and Saqlain bowled a huge chunk of overs. Plus, not to mention, Akhtar has played games he hasnt been able to bowl as well.
 

C_C

International Captain
superkingdave said:
weren't you the one saying stats are everything?
Stats is everything about guaging how good a player is. I never said Pathan is good- far from it.
I have always maintained that potential cannot be judged by stats for a really young newbie.

8-)
 

Deja moo

International Captain
Scaly piscine said:
Hahahahahaha

England's worst pace bowler (which ever one that is) is streets ahead of any of the Pakistan bowlers bar Shoaib Akhtar.
Javed Miandad, meet your alter ego.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
BoyBrumby said:
Assuming Jonah's fit, will we play the extra spinner? If we do I think there's a strong case for Harmy missing out. From memory Hoggy did ok-ish in India last time & we all know Harmy gets a bit weepy if he ventures below South Shields! :D
My XI
yep thanks of course to his performance in b'lore where the ball swung around a bit. he was averaging 40 in the series prior to that game. i think his performance in SL give a more accurate desciption of his bowling in the sub continent.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Scaly piscine said:
Shah had a decent run in the ODI side and didn't do much and his fielding is rubbish, so he's not going to be in Fletcher's good books. Also playing for Middlesex he has some pretty good batting tracks when they're playing at home.
and picking a player who should be playing in tests for ODIs and to make things worse bat him out of position proves so much doesnt it?
 

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