***Official*** England in Pakistan

[aussie]

Akmal; As it stands, I think he'll be the best 'keeper/batsman in the world within 5 years.

well i think one Mahendra Dhoni may have a say as well in 5 years...

 

[aussie]

where were they in the ashes then ?

regardless they are still the best opening pair in the world, one below par series doesn't overshadow 4 1/2 years of outstanding performances

 

[sqwerty]

In this day and age, a team chasing 200 should always win a Test on any respectable wicket.

From what I saw on that final day the ball was spinning 3 feet so I'm not sure if that satisfies the criteria for a 'respectable wicket'

5th day is 5th day afterall in any test match

 

[sqwerty]

Think we just have to acknowledge you blokes have stronger right wrists than us.

Can't imagine why....

I'll be optimistic and look at your avatar for a clue as to what you are referring to.;

 

[SpeedKing]

In addition to be aggressive though, Australia have always had an absolutely awesome batting lineup as well though. It's all very well to say 'we're going to be aggressive' but you need the back up as well.

Having said that though - I think with Trescothick, Vaughan and Strauss England have some quality reliable bats and throw in the hitters like Pietersen and Flintoff as well. Tresocthick is a rock but he also scores quickly too.

It's worked for them pretty well over the last few years so you can't be critical.

Yeah valid point, they just seem to have hit a stumbling block, I could say this of the batters
Tres- No blame whatsoever

strauss- Mind was somewhere else [understandably]

vaughan- I don't know, maybe someone else has got a view on this

bell- Showed fight but the cheap dismissals have cost us dear. One gets the feeling that he cannot afford to play at say 90%, he has to be at his best to perform.

Pietersen- He can afford to play at even 80% and still be good, but that is what breeds complacency. Is it just me or has his footworrk been abit reduced this series, he got bowled alot in the tour games. i would rather see his exaggerated foowrk for an LBW rather than a waft.

Flintoff- Another one who complacency has hit.

Collingwood- I dont get this guy. Everytime i think he is going to perfom he doesn't. when i give up on him he brings the good. I think i is better i give up on hm.

Jones- Shockingly enough, i would say he has been satisfactory, always run out of partners/ or got a beauty. didn't fall in the compacency trap

Giles. Fight with the bat but shocking with the ball. For once he goes into a series with a reputation, and looks what he does. always been behind the pace with the ball

Others dont really count. feel free to air your views.

 

[aussie]

1) We lack a Thorpe-shaped rock around which we can hand our innings. I can't ever see KP or Fred filling his shoes

well IMO at least in Bell down the line he has the capabilities to become England's middle order rock but for now England do have a problem their for sure..

 

[sqwerty]

I know Pakistan fans will probably think im making excuses and not giving their team credit. But i really do think England arent playing anywhere near the intensity they showed this summer (even against Bangladesh). Whether thats tiredness in the bowlers or that they think they are good enough not to give 100% who knows. Obviously still full credit to Pakistan for bowling wonderfully at times on placid pitches and punishing some ineffective bowling.

Lets hope they get a good bollocking over the winter so we approach the India series with a bit more passion!

They'll need to won't they?

I don't know what the expecatations are for India but I would have thought that that tour would have been far more difficult given they're bowling at the likes of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman and Sehwag rather than the fragile looking Pakistani lineup.

 

[aussie]

I'll dare say Pakistan will struggle as much if not more when they tour England next year.

word with a wably opening partershir, even though Butt made runs on these flat he has flaws outside off-syump that i see being severly exposed by england 4-prong next year & Malik ha he'll just roll over. Thus i can see their middle order being exposed very early a lot of times.

 

[SpeedKing]

well i think one Mahendra Dhoni may have a say as well in 5 years...

C'mon guys dont you learn. Tagging somoone as a future great after on maverick innings only ends up in hurt. Not saying anything about akaml or Dhoni btu dont count your eggs before they have hatched

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'll be optimistic and look at your avatar for a clue as to what you are referring to.;

Don't diss the Fen Tiger! One of the best Welters we ever produced.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

The Kiwi lineup is solid all the way down to about 10 though. Guys like McMillan, Astle, Fleming etc have been around a while and are pretty reliable. On paper the NZ lineup looks pretty handy to me - not that that always translates onto the field for them though.

Having said that though - I think with Trescothick, Vaughan and Strauss England have some quality reliable bats and throw in the hitters like Pietersen and Flintoff as well. Tresocthick is a rock but he also scores quickly too.

What nightprowler stated was that every other team had a "class" batsman - I interpreted that as a Ponting, Langer, Kallis, Lara, Tendulkar, Inzy kinda guy. All England have got is four guys who belong on the rung below those, along with the yet unproven but promising Bell and Pietersen. I still think England's batting is better than New Zealand's, because England's opening partnership is stable and almost always (this series excluded, which has been a part of their failure) gives them plenty of runs - I think Tresco and Strauss average nearly 55 together, while New Zealand keep chopping and changing their batsmen around, having Fleming opening in every second match or so - which is a good suggestion NZ isn't happy with the way their batting works. The only person who'd give NZ the edge over England might be Hamish Marshall, but I think he's coming down from a purple patch similar to the one Vaughan had a couple of years back and he'll settle down as a perfectly decent international batsman that England have got plenty of, too.

 

[aussie]

Another quick thing, Ashley Giles might be a really nice guy but come on England he has to go. They might as well pick another batsman and get someone like Tresco or even Vaughan to play the containing role and keep things tight whilst giving the quicker guys a rest until they find a genuine wicket taking spinner.

well its a idea that can be looked at, i dont see why England cant work with 4 seamers. Plus picking an extra batsman could help sure up the middle order a bit..

 

[sqwerty]

Yeah valid point, they just seem to have hit a stumbling block, I could say this of the batters
Tres- No blame whatsoever

strauss- Mind was somewhere else [understandably]

vaughan- I don't know, maybe someone else has got a view on this

bell- Showed fight but the cheap dismissals have cost us dear. One gets the feeling that he cannot afford to play at say 90%, he has to be at his best to perform.

Pietersen- He can afford to play at even 80% and still be good, but that is what breeds complacency. Is it just me or has his footworrk been abit reduced this series, he got bowled alot in the tour games. i would rather see his exaggerated foowrk for an LBW rather than a waft.

Flintoff- Another one who complacency has hit.

Collingwood- I dont get this guy. Everytime i think he is going to perfom he doesn't. when i give up on him he brings the good. I think i is better i give up on hm.

Jones- Shockingly enough, i would say he has been satisfactory, always run out of partners/ or got a beauty. didn't fall in the compacency trap

Giles. Fight with the bat but shocking with the ball. For once he goes into a series with a reputation, and looks what he does. always been behind the pace with the ball

Others dont really count. feel free to air your views.

fair review

With Jones I was impressed when I first watched him bat. Good technique etc. but he's falling behind a bit. Many of the current batsman/keepers around the world are probably better, more reliable batsmen than him. He seems to have too many brain explosions.

As for Giles. I really think his batting has kept him the side to a degree. he's good nuisance value at number 8.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Flintoff - Some of his shots were back to the Flintoff of 5 years ago You just hope once we start to FORGET we beat Australia he'll start putting the hard work in again and bat properly, as for his bowling he seemed to only be at 70% for the entire series, lets just hope he was tired and not injured / not bothered.

Giles - Totally unfit to be fair to him, not to mention pitches that werent as spin friendly as we thought, still no excuse.

Udal - ahem, at least he got his 15 mins of fame to tell his grandkids

Jones - Brillient with the gloves and fairly good with the bat (lets not mention his shot in the first innings of the 3rd test though ok?

Collingwood - Not really needed for his bowling if Bell plays, great fielder not a good enough test batsmen, rather go with Cook / Joyce if we do need a batsmen in future.

Pietersen - did well considering how poor he did in the warm up games, was totally unlucky to get out in the 3rd test, once in a series catch by the keeper.

Strauss - he should never have come on the tour if he knew he was going to miss the 3rd test. He was never going to be 100% concentrating on his game.

Vaughan - did ok considering he's obviously carrying his knee. Lets hope he gets it sorted out once and for all over the winter.

Tresco - Solid as always, i mock anyone who says he's just a flat track bully!

Harmison - Couldnt have asked more from him. I still believe he bowls best when he lowers his pace and concentrates on accuracy than pace, hopefully he'll soon realise this in future series

Hoggard - did all you could ask of him considering he's a swing bowler.

Plunkett - Showed enough in his 2nd spell that he's got potential and the ECB should get him as much time under Cooley as possible. Will be a good bowler in 2-3 years time.

Bell - showed why some people rate him so highly but others think he's not good enough. Gets out playing aggressive shots when he should be looking to build his innings. I guess the best thing about how he gets out is that its alot easier to fix than a technical flaw.

 

[Jono]

C'mon guys dont you learn. Tagging somoone as a future great after on maverick innings only ends up in hurt. Not saying anything about akaml or Dhoni btu dont count your eggs before they have hatched

And this time its not the Indian or Pakistani fans who have said it in this thread

 

[Top_Cat]

And this time its not the Indian or Pakistani fans who have said it in this thread

Yeah but in Akmal's case, there seems to be a great deal behind it. Dhoni has played a couple of spectacular knocks against relatively modest attacks but certainly he's dodgy behind the stumps. Akmal's priority is his 'keeping but he has a very solid game with the willow too. He has all the signs of someone with a bit of grit about him because his 'keeping hasn't gotten progressively worse with no sign of improvement; he had a low point a couple of months ago after a bright start but in this series he's been good and this Test, excellent.

All the signs of someone who knows his game pretty well and he comes across as a bit of a leader too. I'm trying to say he doesn't seem to crumble at the first sign of adversity. A rare trait these days. That's what I like about him. He'll have good and bad days behind the stumps but he seems able to keep working hard to correct any problems. He appears to work hard at all sides of his game.

Dhoni, on the other hand, is a precocious talent with the willow and maybe First-class standard behind the stumps. He's very flashy and I have my doubts about whether he, if he's struggling, can come back quickly. Akmal is a wicket-keeper/batsman whereas Dhoni is a wicket-keeper OR a batsman, depending which side of his game is in form. That's just my impression of him, anyway. Be interesting to see how he goes once he plays a Test but I just don't see him grinding out a tough half-century or batting a whole day to save a Test like I could easily see Akmal doing.

EDIT: Just want to say that I don't look forward to Dhoni failing at all. I sincerely hope he can prove me wrong because if he does, my God it'll be entertaining!

 

[ClownSymonds]

well i think one Mahendra Dhoni may have a say as well in 5 years...

From what I've seen, Dhoni plays with an ugly, improvised style of batting best suited to one-day cricket. He might be able to adapt to Tests, but Akmal has a better starting point. Dhoni might have better temperament, but Akmal can catch up in that area.

 

[uziluva]

Have to laugh at some of the comments by Englishmen.

Before the test, some moaned how England had been unlucky to lose both tosses and how that had such an impact on the games. winning this one was essential to get first use.

So they won it and got bowled out for a low score. So Tres and Botham say how there is actually something in this wicket and 280 is a decent score. Pakistan go on to flail the bowling and now it's that the pitch has got better.

Apparently Fletcher has also come up with an excuse about mental fatigue from too many hours of incarceration in the Pearl Continental Hotel has been a factor.

Funny because after The Ashes, I never heard any of those nasty Aussies who are accused of going against the spirit of cricket blaming it on the loss of 3 consecutive tosses etc. They admitted they had been outplayed and congratulated England. That horrible, discenting appealer Shane Warne has adamently refused to make excuses since.

 

[ClownSymonds]

They'll need to won't they?

I don't know what the expecatations are for India but I would have thought that that tour would have been far more difficult given they're bowling at the likes of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman and Sehwag rather than the fragile looking Pakistani lineup.

Yes, India look to have a better batting line-up than Pakistan, but Pakistan's bowling attack seems to be much better than India's. England might have to toil against India's batsmen, but they should be able to put more runs on the board against India's bowlers than they did against Pakistan's. Then again, on spinning wickets, England might find it very difficult since they don't really have any spinners at all.

 

[aussie]

Then again, on spinning wickets, England might find it very difficult since they don't really have any spinners at all.

Giles?, a proven performer on tracks that assist him..