***Official*** England in Pakistan

[wpdavid]

Craig White for one. I'm not old enough to do the others without cheating!

And he's the only one of the previous allrounders to have later made a 100, but I'm sure you knew that!

2 to go plus the keeper.

 

[sqwerty]

Pathetic batting when chasing a small target.

Credit where credit's due though. Pakistan bowled well in that second innings of the first test and were too good for England.

The same could be said of Australia's performance in the ashes.

You could easily say Australia handed England the ashes.

I think you're overrating the England batting lineup and underrating the **** bowling attack to say England should have won that first test.

 

[Neil Pickup]

In this day and age, a team chasing 200 should always win a Test on any respectable wicket.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

they might struggle a bit, sure. they aint really use to playing the moving ball alot, but u cant say they wont stand a chance!

I saw enough from the little swing we got on this tour to know that bar a few they all have woeful feet movement. Given that the English pitches will seam for longer and the Duke ball will swing for longer than just the first 5 overs i think they'll struggle big time!

 

[sqwerty]

So that will be why Bell and Pietersen both have tons and Collingwood (only in as a reserve) nearly got one then?

But in all fairness, they're not exactly world class - Pietersen's pretty good if not rock solid.

 

[sqwerty]

Where's this class Kiwi batsman? I bet all New Zealanders are curious

The Kiwi lineup is solid all the way down to about 10 though. Guys like McMillan, Astle, Fleming etc have been around a while and are pretty reliable. On paper the NZ lineup looks pretty handy to me - not that that always translates onto the field for them though.

 

[sqwerty]

I honestly think Shoaib Akhtar should be talked about more, atleast for his batting. I am sure the last bits of doubt about his commitment would have vanished by now. It is interesting to see some larger than life characters going back to basics and doing well.... Harbhajan, Yuvraj, Shoaib...

He's had a huge impact on this series if you ask me even if his numbers aren't anything outrageously great.

 

[aussie]

well what a performance by Pakistan, England defiantely cant win but somehow i hope that all the fight that England team has shown over the past 2 years can come to the fore with a match saving batting effort in the second innings & just lose the series 1-0, since & 2-0 scoreline wouldn't look too good.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Trivia time.

Collingwood was the 4th English allrounder to be dismissed or not out in the 90's in a test in Pakistan for what would have been his 1st test 100. 2 of his predecessors never did go on to make a test hundred.

Deatils please, preferably without cheating.

Oh, and it also happened to one of our wicket keepers.

David Capel one of them?

 

[SpeedKing]

Wow i didn't follow todays play and i log onto cricinfo and i found to images of Akmal and Youhana holding up their bats after hundreds, I find it really hard to give up on these guys but now i am officially retired from expecting a positive result for us in this test. We have taken an absolute pounding,. The last time we got one like that was when Graeme Smith sent us to the cleaners, and back, and to the cleaners again. I have got that distinct feeling again. I didn't even feel this way after McGrath had anihilated us in the Lord's.

Time to face hard facts. We just weren't prepared enough and in those moments were you feel the game has been in the balance, Pakistan have always takenthe initiative. Well played you guys. Your plans and strategies have found us lacking. Also, I feel comlacency could be blamed for the way we threw away the first test initiative. I will say again well played Pakistan.

And oh yeah our spinners were dissappointing. Gilo, that was poor. . One area where drasctic improvement is required

 

[sqwerty]

Its sad to think that in a country of 60 odd million Giles and Udal are the best we got

Surely it would be better to play a 17-18yo leg spinner to give him some experience. No way would they bowl worse than Udal / Giles has.

I can't understand why, in all the time I have watched England playing (maybe 20 years) they have never produced a wrist spinner (I think).

Why is that?

I would have thought after Warney bowled his first ever ball in an ashes test in England that all the little pommie kids would be taking up the art of legspin (like they did in Australia)

 

[Fusion]

I saw enough from the little swing we got on this tour to know that bar a few they all have woeful feet movement. Given that the English pitches will seam for longer and the Duke ball will swing for longer than just the first 5 overs i think they'll struggle big time!

With the current form that English batsmen have displayed, couldn't the exact same thing be said about England? Especially considering that Pakistan's attack will consist of Shoaib, Naveed, Sami and company who are no strangers to swing?

 

[BoyBrumby]

I can't understand why, in all the time I have watched England playing (maybe 20 years) they have never produced a wrist spinner (I think).

Why is that?

I would have thought after Warney bowled his first ever ball in an ashes test in England that all the little pommie kids would be taking up the art of legspin (like they did in Australia)

Think we just have to acknowledge you blokes have stronger right wrists than us.

Can't imagine why....

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I know Pakistan fans will probably think im making excuses and not giving their team credit. But i really do think England arent playing anywhere near the intensity they showed this summer (even against Bangladesh). Whether thats tiredness in the bowlers or that they think they are good enough not to give 100% who knows. Obviously still full credit to Pakistan for bowling wonderfully at times on placid pitches and punishing some ineffective bowling.

Lets hope they get a good bollocking over the winter so we approach the India series with a bit more passion!

 

[SpaceMonkey]

With the current form that English batsmen have displayed, couldn't the exact same thing be said about England? Especially considering that Pakistan's attack will consist of Shoaib, Naveed, Sami and company who are no strangers to swing?

Yep absolutely, but the English batsmen are use to these conditions. Shoaib is hit and miss. He actually tried this series and got the results he deserved, but who knows which Shoaib will turn up in England? Sami is a joke so the less said about him the better (i doubt he'll still be in the team come the series). Naveed is a wonderful swing bowler and we'll do well to keep him at bay.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I can't understand why, in all the time I have watched England playing (maybe 20 years) they have never produced a wrist spinner (I think).

Why is that?

I would have thought after Warney bowled his first ever ball in an ashes test in England that all the little pommie kids would be taking up the art of legspin (like they did in Australia)

We did. I'm one of them. Unfotunately we're all around about 19/20 now and we're either academy/county II standards (Marshall, Munday, Lawson) or crap (Pickup).

Australia haven't created one since Warne, have they? Cam White's all that's come through so far since 1993 - and the U19 squad is spinner-light seeing as they need to rely on a guy who can't spell his only bowling style...

 

[sqwerty]

I think thats totally wrong.

Australia have shown that aggression works, and to a similar (but not quite there yet) extent so have England over the last 2 years. So we're going to lose a series to Pakistan in Pakistan, its hardly the end of the world considering even the greatest of England sides struggled there in the past.

I'll dare say Pakistan will struggle as much if not more when they tour England next year.

In addition to be aggressive though, Australia have always had an absolutely awesome batting lineup as well though. It's all very well to say 'we're going to be aggressive' but you need the back up as well.

Having said that though - I think with Trescothick, Vaughan and Strauss England have some quality reliable bats and throw in the hitters like Pietersen and Flintoff as well. Tresocthick is a rock but he also scores quickly too.

It's worked for them pretty well over the last few years so you can't be critical.

 

[Top_Cat]

I would have thought after Warney bowled his first ever ball in an ashes test in England that all the little pommie kids would be taking up the art of legspin (like they did in Australia)

Probably similar to why Australia haven't produced a decent off-spinner in ages; the decks. Warnie does well because Warnie is a giant of the game and bowls well on any surface. He himself is a once-in-a-generation player. England just haven't had theirs yet.

 

[SpeedKing]

Not far off the point their i would say. the batters dont seem to want it enough. The bowlers were always going to get to a certain stage and grind to a halt, the batters ahoul;d perform better. Tres got us off to a flier but we just simply haven't carried in that same intesity

[Replying to SpaceMonkey's post that is]

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I can't understand why, in all the time I have watched England playing (maybe 20 years) they have never produced a wrist spinner (I think).

Why is that?

I would have thought after Warney bowled his first ever ball in an ashes test in England that all the little pommie kids would be taking up the art of legspin (like they did in Australia)

Yeah the excuse people give is that pitches in England dont help Wrist spinners, which is a load of crap. With the amount of funding / attention the ECB are putting on developing a leg spinner its only going to be a matter of time till we produce a world class wrist spinner (maybe not near the ability of Warne, you cant make someone that good they either have it or they dont) but certainly of the McGill / Kanaria standard. Lets just hope its sooner rather than later