***Official*** England in Pakistan

[GladiatrsInBlue]

I think S Afridi should play the first test against England at every cost, i'm tempted to try him as an opener

He's not very keen on openeing the innings and want to bat down the order.



Afridi ready to emulate Flintoff
-----------------------------------------------

If my team needs me to open then I have no choice but to say yes

Shahid Afridi
Pakistan's flamboyant all-rounder Shahid Afridi is keen to emulate Andrew Flintoff and play a decisive role in the Test series against England.

Afridi, sometimes destructive as a one-day batsman and also effective as a leg-spinner, is yet to establish a permanent role in Pakistan's Test side.

But he could open the batting in the first Test starting on Saturday.

Afridi said: "Flintoff has made great contributions for England. I am hoping to match his feats in this series."

The 25-year-old made his debut for Pakistan at 16 and holds the record for the fastest one-day century scored off 37 balls in Nairobi against Sri Lanka in 1997.

He said he now wanted to establish himself as a permanent member of Pakistan's Test squad.

"I have played just 19 Tests all these years and it does not satisfy me as a professional.

"Flintoff is someone who has made impressive progress with bat and ball and is now a certain selection in England Test and one-day squads.

"I want to be like him."

Afridi has scored 1,198 runs and taken 35 wickets in his career, whereas Flintoff, regarded as one of the finest players in the game, has scored 2,691 runs and taken 150 wickets in 53 Tests for England.

Afridi may also be a reluctant opener. He said: "I feel more relaxed at that position but if my team needs me to open and there is a crisis of openers then I have no choice but to say yes." Meanwhile, Pakistan coach Bob Woolmer has admitted that it will be difficult to sort out 11 starters from the squad of 16.

He said: "The selection is going to be a nightmare for us as we have too many options available.

"We now have to sit down and work out the best possible combination."

He would like to see a wicket that starts off as a good batting track before helping the spinners.

"I hope it takes sharp turn because there is no batsman who can play sharp turn comfortably - especially against the wrist-spinners."

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Good luck to Afridi, he needs to work very hard on his bowling if he is to emulate Freddie. If he can turn himself into a bowling all-rounder, as Fred did, then Pak will have something very special indeed.

 

[wpdavid]

No, what I've been trying to say forever is that a no. of people could have done the same job, and probably a whole lot better!

Winning the Ashes does not excuse the fact that Giles bowled poorly.

At times. At other times he played an absolutely crucial role in setting up winning positions for England. He actually had a mixed series, so to state as a "fact" that he bowled poorly in the ashes period simply isn't true. One of Vaughan's weaknesses in the series was that, unlike the quicks, Giles tended to be kept on even when he patently wasn't getting anywhere, which didn't do wonders for his average.

Going back to what we were discussing yesterday, if you look at Giles in Pakistan in 2000 and SL in 2003, he actually matched Saqlain and did miles better than Kaneria, Mushtaq, Dharmasena & Chandana. I know Kaneria was young then , but Giles had only played one test before that series.

None of us are saying he's world class, but some folk just don't want to give him any credit at all, whatever the facts.

 

[social]

At times. At other times he played an absolutely crucial role in setting up winning positions for England. He actually had a mixed series, so to state as a "fact" that he bowled poorly in the ashes period simply isn't true. One of Vaughan's weaknesses in the series was that, unlike the quicks, Giles tended to be kept on even when he patently wasn't getting anywhere, which didn't do wonders for his average.

Going back to what we were discussing yesterday, if you look at Giles in Pakistan in 2000 and SL in 2003, he actually matched Saqlain and did miles better than Kaneria, Mushtaq, Dharmasena & Chandana. I know Kaneria was young then , but Giles had only played one test before that series.

None of us are saying he's world class, but some folk just don't want to give him any credit at all, whatever the facts.

We can discuss isolated performances all you like, but 10 or so @ 50 doesnt lie!

He bowled very well at times in the first innings at Edgbaston and in the first innings at Old Trafford. But that's it!

It's not as though he was unlucky or bowled to his field. The guy needed 4 men on the boundary to stop the flow of runs from an under-pressure batting lineup.

People have crucified Brett Lee for returning 20 @ 40, despite the fact that he could easily have had another 10 wickets, yet do everything they can to make excuses for Giles.

A few Englishmen bowled exceptionally well but why people are falling over themselves to protect an obvious weak link is totally beyond me.

Anyway, it was starting to soung like a broken record months ago and nothing has changed.

Hopefully, Ash will get some spin-friendly wickets to confirm his standing as a good bowler in helpful conditions before showing his true worth on normal wickets again next year.

 

[wpdavid]

We can discuss isolated performances all you like, but 10 or so @ 50 doesnt lie!

He bowled very well at times in the first innings at Edgbaston and in the first innings at Old Trafford. But that's it!

It's not as though he was unlucky or bowled to his field. The guy needed 4 men on the boundary to stop the flow of runs from an under-pressure batting lineup.

People have crucified Brett Lee for returning 20 @ 40, despite the fact that he could easily have had another 10 wickets, yet do everything they can to make excuses for Giles.

A few Englishmen bowled exceptionally well but why people are falling over themselves to protect an obvious weak link is totally beyond me.

Anyway, it was starting to soung like a broken record months ago and nothing has changed.

Hopefully, Ash will get some spin-friendly wickets to confirm his standing as a good bowler in helpful conditions before showing his true worth on normal wickets again next year.

Do feel free to explain how he matched Saqlain & completely outbowled Kaneria, Mushtaq, Dharmasena & Chandana on the tours we discussed, if he's as bad as you're making out. And believe me, as someone who's seen the likes of Emburey & Tufnell do naff all on Asian wickets, I'm pretty happy to have at least one slow bowler who can do something there. The idea that the CC is overflowing with guys who could do a better job just doesn't match up to what I've seen of the English game.

As for Lee, I actually agree with you. I thought he was a far more consistent threat than, say, Harmison and you could point out spells in almost every test when he really was on fire and played a significant part. His figures also suffered because hiscaptain kept him on too long when he was obviously not getting anywhere. I would have picked him in a composite side from the series.

 

[Scaly piscine]

As for Lee, I actually agree with you. I thought he was a far more consistent threat than, say, Harmison and you could point out spells in almost every test when he really was on fire and played a significant part.

He wasn't a consistent threat, not even close and certainly not far more consistent than Harmison. Lee got nearly all his wickets through boneheaded shots or Vaughan's knack of missing straight deliveries. The only time he did owt was in England's small chase of 115 ish, other than that it was isolated overs, every time he came on to bowl you felt as long as England batted properly they'd slaughter him - they pretty much did. Even Hoggard played him with ridiculous ease in the last Test.

 

[wpdavid]

He wasn't a consistent threat, not even close and certainly not far more consistent than Harmison. Lee got nearly all his wickets through boneheaded shots or Vaughan's knack of missing straight deliveries. The only time he did owt was in England's small chase of 115 ish, other than that it was isolated overs, every time he came on to bowl you felt as long as England batted properly they'd slaughter him - they pretty much did. Even Hoggard played him with ridiculous ease in the last Test.

From memory, Lee bowled excellent spells at Lord's (Saturday afternoon), Edgbaston (Saturday morning), Trent Bridge (Sunday afternoon/evening) and the Oval (before lunch on Day 5). He also picked up some useful wickets at Old Trafford with isolated good deliveries. That doesn't make him a consistent threat, but at least he showed up for parts of every test. Harmison, OTOH, was terrific on Day 1 at Lord's, less so in Aus's 2nd innings, and rarely a threat thereafter. In terms of quality, you're talking about one good over at langer at the Oval and and occasional good deliveries to get rid of Clarke. More than anyone, Harmison's figures were flattered by lucky lbw's and tailenders. As we have discussed before ...

EDIT
Apologies to anyone expecting a discussion of England in Pakistan. I'll try to stay on topic from now on.

 

[Scaly piscine]

The only consistent threat from Lee was that he'd wear his own half of the pitch out. The rest of the time he regularly hit the middle of the bat and usually he was there to profit from gormless shots, like smacking the ball to deep square leg, playing around straight deliveries and so on. Harmison at least hit plenty of people and earned wickets with good deliveries.

Anyway not sure what the point of Anderson being in the squad of 13 is...

 

[luckyeddie]

A few Englishmen bowled exceptionally well but why people are falling over themselves to protect an obvious weak link is totally beyond me..

When is the penny going to drop with you that Giles was picked because he was the best we'd got, and it was essential that we had someone who could do some sort of a 'holding role' as well as to provide some sort of a contrast?

I really find it quite incredible that you cannot grasp that simple concept - or is it deliberate trolling on your part?

 

[howardj]

Cant wait for the 1st Test tomorrow. It's being televised on live on Foxtel at 3pm. Should be awesome. Im predicting England 2-1, with Pakistan to win the dead rubber. I always think spin is a little over-rated in Pakistan - it's certainly not as decisive as it is in India. To that end, I think England's quicks will do the damage in this series, ably supported by an accurate Ash Giles. I don't think he needs to take big hauls, just keep things tight and chip in.

 

[luckyeddie]

OK, head on the line time.

My prediction is 1-1. This is going to be an exceptionally difficult series for England, and I reckon that they are certain to play two spinners tomorrow. Conversely, it's the seam bowlers that will hold the key, certainly when it comes to the use of the new ball during the second and third tests. This early morning dew/mist malarkey could mean that they are good tosses to lose.

On paper, the sides look very evenly matched (but then again I said that about the Ashes, so what do I know?). It'll be interesting to see how the born-again Shoaib goes.

 

[wpdavid]

OK, head on the line time.

My prediction is 1-1. This is going to be an exceptionally difficult series for England, and I reckon that they are certain to play two spinners tomorrow. Conversely, it's the seam bowlers that will hold the key, certainly when it comes to the use of the new ball during the second and third tests. This early morning dew/mist malarkey could mean that they are good tosses to lose.

On paper, the sides look very evenly matched (but then again I said that about the Ashes, so what do I know?). It'll be interesting to see how the born-again Shoaib goes.

I think we'll struggle. The batters worry me a lot: if the openers go cheaply, the middle order looks pretty flakey to me. Unless the wickets are quite unlike anything we've previously seen in Pakistan/England games, we'll struggle to bowl them out. Maybe 1-0 to the hosts, with two bore-draws after winning the 1st test.

 

[superkingdave]

Im predicting 1-1, there's only been 1 draw iirc in Pakistan since we toured their last.

It will be interesting if Pakistan decide to go in with Kaneria and Mushtaq as Sami and Akhtar seem to be the first choice pacemen and i wouldn't want to go in to a match with just those 2, thats where Razzaq's injury hurts them i guess.

 

[Shahid Afridi]

i wud rate pakistan to win 1-0 or 2-0. reasons are obvious, they are at home + better confidence

 

[Scaly piscine]

i wud rate pakistan to win 1-0 or 2-0. reasons are obvious, they are at home + better confidence

Better confidence? England have won their last 6 Test series including against Australia, the odd injury or warm-up defeat isn't going to put much of a dent into the confidence of a side after a run like that.

 

[Shahid Afridi]

- no captain present,

and also pakistan have been successful this year, remember we beat WI and India

and the game is being played in Pakistan

 

[Scaly piscine]

- no captain present,

and also pakistan have been successful this year, remember we beat WI and India

and the game is being played in Pakistan

You drew with WI after you got thumped in the first Test.

 

[Shahid Afridi]

on the note of confidence, drawing and saving the test boosts alot of confidence trust.

anyways we will see how england performs 2moro.

 

[Fusion]

You drew with WI after you got thumped in the first Test.

1st Test was played without Inzi (serving a one match ban). Not to say that excuses the result, but still his absence was a major blow to Pakistan.

 

[Shahid Afridi]

yea obviously, because he anchors the whole batting of pakistan.

its like if england go 2moro without trescothik, it would be hard to gain a reasonable result as you know tresco can guarantee alot of runs per innings.