Yeah - “catches not going to hand” means ball flying through 3rd slip when you’ve got 2 slips, 4th slip and a gully, or going to long leg on the bounce when you’ve got two men back on the hook. Definitely not multiple dropped catches, not even probably balls falling into space when you’ve set overly defensive fields.
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**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests
- Thread starter FBU
- Start date
Moss
International Captain
Seems like a good game to have mostly missed, bit of a regression to mean (sorry) for NZ. Did have a feeling it would play out like this even as the feel- good factor after India was pretty strong.
Obviously the catching was the biggest reason for the defeat, and has been an issue for too long to be brushed away. Couple of things though: the batting continues not to push on to bigger scores or partnerships - the only centuries in the last 12 months against opposition aside from South Africa’s B team have come from Ravindra in India and KW in Bangladesh. Contrast with two consecutive 150+ partnerships for ENG in this test (dropped catches or not).
The other, I don’t know, seems to be an over-reliance on Wagnerball well after the great man went into decline. The infuriating thing is it seems to work well against NZ’s batting - Ravindra & Mitchell dismissals. Reading about how effective Carse was in this game, feels like NZ needs those sorts of skills with the older ball too. Woukd like some thoughts on how NZ bowled in general between overs 30-80, as I didn’t watch and this guess could be off. Too bad Santner was not available for a test on this ground.
Obviously the catching was the biggest reason for the defeat, and has been an issue for too long to be brushed away. Couple of things though: the batting continues not to push on to bigger scores or partnerships - the only centuries in the last 12 months against opposition aside from South Africa’s B team have come from Ravindra in India and KW in Bangladesh. Contrast with two consecutive 150+ partnerships for ENG in this test (dropped catches or not).
The other, I don’t know, seems to be an over-reliance on Wagnerball well after the great man went into decline. The infuriating thing is it seems to work well against NZ’s batting - Ravindra & Mitchell dismissals. Reading about how effective Carse was in this game, feels like NZ needs those sorts of skills with the older ball too. Woukd like some thoughts on how NZ bowled in general between overs 30-80, as I didn’t watch and this guess could be off. Too bad Santner was not available for a test on this ground.
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Chin Music
State Vice-Captain
Is it time for a Brydon Carse appreciation thread?
Meridio
International Regular
Yes, very much this. We - and, it seems, most of the other test teams around the world - seem to go far too quickly to Wagnerball as soon as either a batsman plays some aggressive shots, or the lower order comes in. Against certain players, like say Santner, or Woakes, who have a clear weakness against the short ball, that's fine. But there's no desire to just stick with the basic plan and back your good bowlers to get them out. Instead that plan is totally abandoned and the only available method of dismissal becomes the top edge to someone in the deep (who drops it anyway). I don't know if it's an effect of T20 cricket, where you have to constantly adapt to what the opposition are doing due to the compressed time, but there isn't that same constraint in Test cricket and the pitches tend to have more assistance for the bowlers.
I didn't see all of those overs, but I thought there was always a bit of extra bounce in this pitch, and that all our bowlers looked far more likely when they were attacking the top of off stump rather than trying to bounce them out. And the extra frustrating thing is that on their last tour here England smashed a declined Wagner around and we just haven't learned from that.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Nice result to wake up to, following equally enjoyable scorecards over the previous two breakfasts. Obviously the NZ dropped catches made a huge difference, but there were some significant positives for England. Did anyone here think that Carse would step up so well to test cricket? His FC bowling average of 33 suggested othewise, but he's been highly impressive so far. Similarly, did anyone predict 8 months ago that Carse and Atkinson would be the men to make a decent fist of replacing Broad and Anderson by the end of the year? Very early days of course, and doubtless we'll still be reading about the iniquities handed down to Jimmy for a while yet on those days when it doesn't go so well, but I think we should give the selectors a bit of credit when due.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Quite right sir. Long live Bazball and its attribute based selections
Chin Music
State Vice-Captain
As I said earlier in the thread, picking seamers based on CC results is nigh on useless. They need the attributes such as pace and bounce, especially on less helpful overseas conditions.
ashley bach
Cricketer Of The Year
@Prince EWS always thought he'd come up trumps. Got a good eye for talent has the Prince.
mackembhoy
International Regular
Well of all the posts I expected to see waking up this was definitely not one of them.
Absolutely post of the test match
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Carse is arse.
ashley bach
Cricketer Of The Year
Yes indeed and well spotted Sir.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Dead right. And it does raise the question of what the poster's user name is an anagram of too.Well of all the posts I expected to see waking up this was definitely not one of them.
Absolutely post of the test match
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Arse of the match. Always destined to be arse.
mackembhoy
International Regular
Over rates but we got one after winning a game inside 3 days I believe. Which just makes a further mockery of the competition. England captain doesn't even give a toss about the WTC, which I find disrespectful to the fans that pay a lot to watch. But tells you everything you need to know about the over rates punishment and if one of the big 3 don't care it's a DOA concept.
Every team needs to play the same number of games that count towards it and if it's too expensive for sides to host tests. Then the ICC need to change the funding model and the big 3 need to stop being greedy, as they will only kill Test Cricket. But alas that's where we are headed.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Or just do away with the WTC completely. Either the situation is so obvious that it's unnecessary (e.g. peak WI and peak Australia) or it's so close that a one-off final is meaningless anyway. Having the rankings as a league table if fine without the need for a final.
mackembhoy
International Regular
Well that too but it's trying to give more meaning to test cricket, to try and save it. While stupid tournaments are popping up everywhere trying to take players and moron fans interest elsewhere.
Seeing clips of a glum Alex Hales and Liam Livingstone just spanking multiple sixes against a bowling machine bowler in the UAE looks absolutely riveting.
Not really sure why the ICC have to save test cricket when thats the threat to it!
mackembhoy
International Regular
Yeah one off game in London is utterly stupid.
But we're crap at Lords our worst ground in England. Any side in the WTC final should be beating us there.
