***Official*** England in India

[marc71178]

Wrong. Well, you should read some of my posts from many series ago...that's of course when you are not trying to be smart putting my posts down with oh-so-clever comments...Any time I raised Tendilkar's problems I practically got assaulted on this board.

Sorry?

I posted that about 15 minutes after he was dismissed today and at that point nobody had mentioned it during this game.

And you're not the only one to have questioned him for some time now.

 

[marc71178]

In short - any inexplicable decisions your selectors make, we can match.

I'll give you Mick Lewis, but you can't beat the combination of Shaun Udal AND Ian Blackwell.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I'd like to see some names of batsmen who've been through such long slumps and returned as good as ever.

That depends on how long Tendulkar's slump is. If you consider him to be in a slump since 2002 (which is a little harsh, as he has performed on occasion since then), then probably never. There's some long ones though... Steve Waugh had at least two years where he was well below his best before he hit his first century in a long time against Pakistan and then followed it up with the famous one in the final Ashes test. He didn't pass 100 between the final Ashes test of 2001 and October 2002 against Pakistan, and then after the following Ashes he returned to form with four centuries and four fifties in the last year of his career.

The thing about Tendulkar is, in the last three years until recently he's still been maintaining a passable average. He's obviously nowhere near the best batsman in the world right now, but unless he was averaging below 30 for a long period, it was never a valid call to drop him. India have a good batting lineup, and there's no reason they can't give Sachin a decent period of leniency before his head is on the chopping block, just like Australia did with Waugh.

Having said that, he definately needs to do something to indicate that he still has what it takes. He's only made four centuries in the last 3 and a half years, which we already knew, but the thing of real concern for me is his last 10 or so innings, in which he hasn't passed 30. He looked like he was coming good after the series against Pakistan, but he's fallen away very badly since then, and one more poor series could bring his future in the team into question, legitimately. The "you can't drop Sachin" idea is a very poor one, and it's one India has to get over if they're going to be a great side. If Waugh and Marsh could drop Warne, Dravid and Chappell can drop Sachin, and they should if it's what is best for the team.

 

[open365]

Dean Jones, the former Australian Test batsman turned-commentator:

“Steve Waugh has won two World Cups, seven Ashes, 13 World Series. So if you ask me who I prefer, Waugh or Sachin Tendulkar, I would say Waugh,” he says. “What has Sachin won? He came close to winning the World Cup, but Australia ran away with that match.”

Ok. Sycophants - let's hear the defense.

Are you trying to be a complete dope?

Of course Steve Waugh has won a lot of stuff, he played in the best team in the world for most of his career, what do you expect?

 

[open365]

I'd like to see some names of batsmen who've been through such long slumps and returned as good as ever.

*Hayden Cough*

*Lara Cough*

 

[steds]

I'd like to see some names of batsmen who've been through such long slumps and returned as good as ever.

Sir Donald Bradman.

Between 1938 and 1946 he didn't score a single test run.

 

[Neil Pickup]

*Hayden Cough*

*Lara Cough*

Lara's worst run - Nov 97 to Mar 99: 15 Tests, 921 runs @ 35.42, 7x50, HS 93
Hayden's recent run - Oct 04 to Aug 05: 16 Tests, 842 runs @ 30.07, 5x50, HS 70

Sachin's current run - April 04 to present: 17 Tests, 691 runs @ 28.79, 1x100, 4x50, HS 109

This is a) longer and b) worse

 

[steds]

Lara's worst run - Nov 97 to Mar 99: 15 Tests, 921 runs @ 35.42, 7x50, HS 93
Hayden's recent run - Oct 04 to Aug 05: 16 Tests, 842 runs @ 30.07, 5x50, HS 70

Sachin's current run - April 04 to present: 17 Tests, 691 runs @ 28.79, 1x100, 4x50, HS 109

This is a) longer and b) worse

Still not as bad as Bradman.

 

[silentstriker]

Between 1938 and 1946 he didn't score a single test run.

I LOL'ed

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Lara's worst run - Nov 97 to Mar 99: 15 Tests, 921 runs @ 35.42, 7x50, HS 93
Hayden's recent run - Oct 04 to Aug 05: 16 Tests, 842 runs @ 30.07, 5x50, HS 70

Sachin's current run - April 04 to present: 17 Tests, 691 runs @ 28.79, 1x100, 4x50, HS 109

This is a) longer and b) worse

Waugh and Taylor?

 

[wpdavid]

When's the last time Hoggard had a bad series?

Since the WI series he's probably been better than Harmison?

Streets better. I worked out the other day that since the start of the series in SA, excluding the Bang games, Hoggard averages 29 compared to Harmison's 40. Flintoff's average was about 26, IIRC.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Waugh and Taylor?

Taylor - Oct 95 to Mar 97: 13 Tests, 562 @ 25.54, 2x50, HS 96
Waugh - Dec 85 to Feb 89: 26 Tests, 1099 @ 30.52, 10x50, HS 91

 

[Neil Pickup]

Streets better. I worked out the other day that since the start of the series in SA, excluding the Bang games, Hoggard averages 29 compared to Harmison's 40. Flintoff's average was about 26, IIRC.

And three months ago I got shouted down for daring to suggest Hoggard as a team of the year contender...

 

[wpdavid]

And three months ago I got shouted down for daring to suggest Hoggard as a team of the year contender...

Well, you were ahead of the rest of us there. What is very noticeable is how much more there is to his game nowadays - slower deliveries, reverse swing, plus goodness knows what else. The days when he only had a bowl when conditions suited are hopefully a thing of the past.

 

[marc71178]

*Hayden Cough*

*Lara Cough*

For 3 and a bit years?

Lara has never had 2 consecutive calander years under 40, and Hayden hasn't had any since 2000 (although of course his poor run did go across 2 years, but still nowhere near as long)

For the record, since 1/1/03, Tendulkar has 1623 @ 47.73 (26 Tests, 4 centuries)

However remove Bangladesh and its 1339 @ 40.58 - not terrible, but certainly not what he used to churn out. Also makes it 3 centuries in 24 games - and 2 of them have come in run fests...

 

[marc71178]

Sir Donald Bradman.

Between 1938 and 1946 he didn't score a single test run.

D'oh! I missed him.

If only he had Mick Lewis bowling against him in that time, he'd have managed a century even without playing any games!

 

[marc71178]

Well, you were ahead of the rest of us there. What is very noticeable is how much more there is to his game nowadays - slower deliveries, reverse swing, plus goodness knows what else.

Troy's parting gift perhaps?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Troy's parting gift perhaps?

Lets hope Anderson and Plunkett are his parting gift over the next month or so!

 

[Jono]

For 3 and a bit years?

Lara has never had 2 consecutive calander years under 40, and Hayden hasn't had any since 2000 (although of course his poor run did go across 2 years, but still nowhere near as long)

For the record, since 1/1/03, Tendulkar has 1623 @ 47.73 (26 Tests, 4 centuries)

However remove Bangladesh and its 1339 @ 40.58 - not terrible, but certainly not what he used to churn out. Also makes it 3 centuries in 24 games - and 2 of them have come in run fests...

40.58? That's almost Vaughan's career average. If a player can average over 40 in a bad patch (Hell, horrible patch) which included two periods where he stopped playing due to injury, I don't think its the end of the world.

And for the record, Sachin's ODI stats since 1/1/03 (Apparently the cut-off point from when Sachin started failing in tests):
2602 runs @ 44.10 (62 matches, 6 centuries)

I think its time people realise that Tendulkar has fallen off in only one format of the game.

 

[IndianByHeart]

If Sachin fails in another series then i think he should make way for Kaif.