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***Official*** England in India

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
adharcric said:
Indeed he does deserve to be in both the Test and ODI sides. Before we go to 5 bowlers and force ourselves to bench both Yuvraj and Ganguly or use a makeshift opener, I'd like to see a change in quality rather than quantity in our pace attack.
If you want a change in quality in the pace attack, you'll need a Shoaib Akhtar. Look at any match-winning bowling attack other than Australia (who now have Symonds as a stock bowler) and you'll find five bowlers in it. The Indian, West Indian and Lankan bowlign attacks have just four men and struggle to take 20 wickets, even though one of them has an all-time legend in their ranks. If you can find a new pace bowler who can make a difference, pick him and then see what happens. They'll still struggle to get 20 wickets, as they always have.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
adharcric said:
They didn't get 2 centuries apiece, but they did reasonably well, made decent contributions. You can't blame Ganguly or Yuvraj for the fact that Sehwag and Dravid didn't make runs. Likewise, you can't blame Ganguly or Yuvraj for the fact that our "pace attack" lacked penetration. In fact, Ganguly did get the first wicket.
I'm not blaming any of Ganguly or Yuvraj for not scoring enough runs. I'm just saying that they're not adding much value to the team, even at their best. They didn't make a difference that time, since we're looking at a team victory here. Had one of them bowled a major chunk of overs (as many as any of the bowlers), an extra wicket could have been claimed. Sure, Ganguly took a wicket, but do you expect to have him bowling so many overs in every match? We find Shahid Afridi bowling chunks of overs in nearly every innings, and so does Abdul Razzaq. But not an Indian batsman.
If Dhoni and Pathan had also made centuries and it became a draw, that would make Yuvraj's century a match-saving knock right? But he still would've played the same exact century.
It would make all three centuries match-saving. And what happened to winning?
You're also ignoring the fact that our batsmen played against Akhtar, Asif and Razzaq, and the opposition played against 3 left-arm medium pacers who couldn't do much on this day for some reason. Make no mistake, our batsmen played poorly even though the opposition bowlers bowled well. But take that into consideration when comparing the batting of Pakistan and India.
Yes, the Indians faced three right-arm seamers, with just Akhtar bowling at express pace. Razzaq was bowling as fast as any Indian bowler, and Asif, at the pace at which the Indians should be bowling. The Pakistanis had five batsmen, then Kamran Akmal, then Shahid "slogger" Afridi and Abdul "bits-and-pieces" Razzaq, who scored heavily. The Indians had six specialist batsmen and yet all of them scored in bits and pieces. We're taking nothnig away from Yuvraj's century, it was fantastic, and definitely enough to make an Indian top five, but lack of versatility has weakened the Indian team yet again.
On to the idea of bringing in a "value-addition" like Bangar, Munaf, Joginder, etc.. I agree with you there. This guy needs to be pacy though, unless we have a pacy option like Sreesanth or VRV in the attack as well.
VRV or Sreesanth has to play as a frontline seamer to partner Irfan in Tests. Pace should be a prioirty, since the Indians have been missing it so long. Munaf, though, can be India's answer to Afridi, and should be played as one. Both should make their Test debuts in the forthcoming series against England. It won't do the team much harm. We're not dropping Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, Harbhajan or Kumble here, are we?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Arjun said:
Yes, I agree, the top four were rubbish, but what did Ganguly and Yuvraj ever do to make up? It does not matter whether they scored 20, 40 or 60, they didn't do enough to make up for the failures of the top four.
So you're advocating dropping Yuvraj and Ganguly for failing to do the work of 6 batsmen between them? 8-)

Arjun said:
Now look at the other team. They had one batsman less. Yet everyone from one to seven scored over 50. Two of them were not even specialists. Akmal wasn't even in that list. Now look at the Indians, who lost by 341 runs, with SIX specialist batsmen. And one of them, no two, maybe three, isn't scoring enough runs to make a difference, and doesn't even bowl enough overs to support the four bowlers.
By the same token, none of Dravid, Sehwag, Tendulkar and Laxman scored enough runs to make a difference and they didn't bowl enough overs to support the four bowlers.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Arjun said:
We find Shahid Afridi bowling chunks of overs in nearly every innings, and so does Abdul Razzaq. But not an Indian batsman.
Could it be because whereas Afridi and Razzaq are ALL ROUNDERS, the Indian BATSMEN are not?


Arjun said:
Munaf, though, can be India's answer to Afridi, and should be played as one.
He can average over 40 with the bat in Tests can he? 8-)
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
You're really not making much sense here Arjun. How can you criticize the two people who actually did something as the ones who ddin't make a difference. Think of the further humiliation had they done the same as the four batsmen before them.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Yuvraj is amongst India's best batters this season. 'Nuff said. Actually, he has looked more fluent at the crease than almost all Indian batters.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
whats the latest on Giles haven't heard much of late, since i hope he makes it for the Indian tour since i would like to see him & Panesar bowl together.
 

alternative

Cricket Web Content Updater
honestbharani said:
Yuvraj is amongst India's best batters this season. 'Nuff said. Actually, he has looked more fluent at the crease than almost all Indian batters.

I have to disagree there, as yuvraj off late in the TEST match arena is just living on luck, he had the lady luck following him throught his century against pakistan in the 3rd test..

I still think he is a better ODI player than a test match player..
 

Nishant

International 12th Man
Giles and panesar are not gonna make a difference. India has more than capable batsmen to play 'apologies of spin bowling'
 

Barney Rubble

International Coach
Nishant said:
Giles and panesar are not gonna make a difference. India has more than capable batsmen to play 'apologies of spin bowling'
Well, given that you played Pakistan's seam attack so well, I'm sure Fred, Jonah and Harmy won't cause you any trouble at all......:p
 

Nishant

International 12th Man
They didnt cause pakistan much trouble. I dont see why they would cause us (india) any trouble either. India only struggled against asif but shoaib, Rana and sami were hit around the park. the same is gonna happend to the english bowlers
 

Barney Rubble

International Coach
Nishant said:
They didnt cause pakistan much trouble. I dont see why they would cause us (india) any trouble either. India only struggled against asif but shoaib, Rana and sami were hit around the park. the same is gonna happend to the english bowlers
They didn't cause Pakistan much trouble because Pakistan's batsmen know how to play pace bowling, and because Pakistanis invented reverse-swing. India are going to have to get their act together if they want to avoid being exposed, as England's pace bowlers are superior to Pakistan's as a unit. Pakistan benefitted from Shoaib on top form and Kaneria being more than effective. The other bowlers, particularly Sami, showed very little, despite Rana Naved's useful showing.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
I think you're being a bit optimistic there Barney, our seamers may be brilliant, but I doubt they'll cause too many problems, I fully expect the pitches to do nothing at all for seamers.

I think their spinners will cause far more problems than our seamers.
 

Barney Rubble

International Coach
Tom Halsey said:
I think you're being a bit optimistic there Barney, our seamers may be brilliant, but I doubt they'll cause too many problems, I fully expect the pitches to do nothing at all for seamers.

I think their spinners will cause far more problems than our seamers.
Meh, I'm biased. And what? :p
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tom Halsey said:
I think you're being a bit optimistic there Barney, our seamers may be brilliant, but I doubt they'll cause too many problems, I fully expect the pitches to do nothing at all for seamers.

I think their spinners will cause far more problems than our seamers.
I doubt it. There aren't that many pitches where it does absolutely nothing for the seamers and it does plenty for the spinners. It's not like the Aussie seamers have been completely nullified for long when they've toured India over the last few years.

The pitches in Pakistan couldn't have been much more unhelpful towards seamers and they still virtually won England a game in the first Test, without the taff there.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
India are a considerably better batting side than Pakistan though. I fully expect India to rattle up at least 400 in all of the Tests, very possibly 500.
 

simmy

International Regular
Probably be as bad as the recent series we have just had in India...

Cant say I'm even looking forward to it.

Flat, dead pitches = boring cricket.
 

Nishant

International 12th Man
Tom Halsey said:
India are a considerably better batting side than Pakistan though. I fully expect India to rattle up at least 400 in all of the Tests, very possibly 500.

i agree with u. India on their day can score almost freely with the likes of sehwag etc. Should be a good series though and probably quite close at the end. After all, it is the 2nd v 3rd in terms of icc rankings.

Hope there are no dead pitches, but could almost guarantee spinning conditions, suiting harbhajan and kumble. Hope india win!:p
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tom Halsey said:
India are a considerably better batting side than Pakistan though. I fully expect India to rattle up at least 400 in all of the Tests, very possibly 500.
A batting side that has Ganguly and Yuvraj at 5 & 6?

India are going to be relying on Sehwag, Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman for a LOT of runs, one of which is in as makeshift opener. Laxman isn't exactly Mr. reliable and Tendulkar is far from his best at the moment. If England do damage with the new ball I certainly won't be backing Ganguly, Yuvraj and the lower order against the likes of Flintoff, Harmison and the taff.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Yuvraj, from what I've heard, is in decent form at the moment, could be wrong though.

Sehwag, Tendulkar, Dravid, and to a lesser extent Laxman is a good batting line up on its own.
 

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