***Official*** England in India

[Salamuddin]

but at the start of the test, I think it was widely considered India would easily win this one.
England definatly come out of this test with more credit

Yeah the Pommies have done well but this could very well be their best chance to have won a test in INdia on this tour and India will now draw this test pretty easily.

I remember you posting last night that the England bowling would cause India heaps of problems but it hasn't really done so.....and I'll tell you why....you've really got only two genuine wickettakers in your side ...Flintoff and Hoggard. armison is next to useless when conditions are not ideal for him. Panesar lacks variety (although he is young granted) - he doesn't turn it as much as Harbhajan and doesn't get the alarming lift of Kumble. If the Indians read his variations in flight, they'll play him without too much discomfort.
As for Blackwell, he wouldn't make a 2nd division Ranji side for his spin bowling.

England I think were also lucky they won the toss ......it will be interested to see how they bat against Harbhajan against Kumble if they bat second. I personally think they'll have a lot of problems then ......

So in short....yeah England will be satisfied they didn't lose but deep down they will know they should have created more opportunities on this final day.
Their inability to force a win here could well prove to be telling for the series as a whole.

 

[Sanz]

Why not Md. Kaif. Boy that was a superb inning under pressure from him.

Collingwood played a better inning than Kaif, he remained not out too.

 

[Swervy]

Yeah the Pommies have done well but this could very well be their best chance to have won a test in INdia on this tour and India will now draw this test pretty easily.

I remember you posting last night that the England bowling would cause India heaps of problems but it hasn't really done so.....and I'll tell you why....you've really got only two genuine wickettakers in your side ...Flintoff and Hoggard. armison is next to useless when conditions are not ideal for him. Panesar lacks variety (although he is young granted) - he doesn't turn it as much as Harbhajan and doesn't get the alarming lift of Kumble. If the Indians read his variations in flight, they'll play him without too much discomfort.
As for Blackwell, he wouldn't make a 2nd division Ranji side for his spin bowling.

England I think were also lucky they won the toss ......it will be interested to see how they bat against Harbhajan against Kumble if they bat second. I personally think they'll have a lot of problems then ......

So in short....yeah England will be satisfied they didn't lose but deep down they will know they should have created more opportunities on this final day.
Their inability to force a win here could well prove to be telling for the series as a whole.

no i didnt say england would cause india heaps of problems, i said that they have given themselves the best opportunity to win the game. the key to not losing game for england was getting Sehwag out early, but the key to getting the win was always going to be getting Dravid out

 

[Salamuddin]

no i didnt say england would cause india heaps of problems, i said that they have given themselves the best opportunity to win the game. the key to not losing game for england was getting Sehwag out early, but the key to getting the win was always going to be getting Dravid out

OK......But i Still think I wouldn't indulge in too much self congratulation if I were England.
I still think they missed a big opportunity here to go 1-0 up.

India despite not playing well for days 2,3,4, will still feel reasonably buoyant after their strong batting on day 5 and they will come harder at England at Mohali I feel.

 

[Sanz]

Dravid 50 in 169 balls - Marathon Inning.

 

[Jono]

England having played well in the test, a draw is very much as good as a victory for them despite the possibility of the win they had at the end of day 4.

Not really, because this was the opportunity England had to strike a blow against India early. They were in a great position to win when India were 7-190 or whatever, and India fought back. That's really where the game changed. Granted England batted well, but they needed more than 90 overs to bowl India out on this pitch.

If England get another opportunity like they had this test match, well then they've played some awesome cricket once again, but this one was there for the taking.

 

[Jono]

While we certainly do have more to be pleased with, I just have a feeling we may rue missing this opportunity

Yeah that's the way I see it (despite my view being from an Indian fan's). If I were in the English fan's shoes, I'd be happy with the effort but pretty shattered that they didn't take the game by its throat and have a 150-200 run lead when the opportunity was there.

but at the start of the test, I think it was widely considered India would easily win this one.
England definatly come out of this test with more credit

Credit is nice but you want to win the series. I guarantee you the English camp weren't thinking what many of the posters here were thinking at the start of the series, "3-0, injuries too much for England, etc etc."

They believed they could have won, and came damn close to. That will be disappointing. What I did find odd is in Hoggard's interview today he specifically came out to mention that whilst they were going for the win, a draw would be a good result considering the cricket they have played. Yes a draw is a good result with the injuries and what England were on at stumps on day 1, but England were on top on day 3 and dominated day 4. It is still a rued opportunity.

 

[Pratters]

yeah but he didnt get a century and collingwood's was just as good but bigger

Collingwood played a better inning than Kaif, he remained not out too.

India were at 190/7. That is a lot worse than the situation England were at (225/6, 244/7) IMO given also that England had managed 390.

I would rate the Kaif inning higher.

 

[Salamuddin]

Collingwood played a better inning than Kaif, he remained not out too.

Kaif played his knock with the additional pressure of chasing though......

 

[Salamuddin]

I should add that I've seen bowlers take 10 wickets on pitches flatter than this so any potential English excuses that there was nothing in this wicket for our bowlers on day 5 won't cut it imo.

THis game was there for England's taking and they blew it.

 

[Sanz]

India were at 190/7. That is a lot worse than the situation England were at (225/6, 244/7) IMO given also that England had managed 390.

I would rate the Kaif inning higher.

When Collingwood came on to bat - England were 110/3 and then 136/4, When Kaif came to bat - India were 149/4. England managed 390 because Collingwood hung on to bat with the tail whereas when Kumble got out, India still had two more wickets in hand, If kayed, kaif had stayed, India could have managed more than 323.

 

[CDAK]

Kaif played his knock with the additional pressure of chasing though......

True. Also the English attack is far better than the Indian.

 

[Sanz]

Kaif played his knock with the additional pressure of chasing though......

Well that's debatable at best. It was only India's first innings. Collingwood had the pressure of playing away from home. It's basically a matter of opinion and IMO Collingwood's inning was better. I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[Sanz]

True. Also the English attack is far better than the Indian.

England has better pace attack, India has better spin attack.

 

[Pratters]

No India didn't have Yuvraj to pick from. Pitch didn't wear because of the heavy rain on the night of day 2 which (believe or not) helped Hoggy immensly(not taking any credit away from him though) on day 3 morning. If Jones was going to play there is good chance that Hoggard would have been carrying drinks.

India also had its new comers in Jaffer and Santh and they have done extremely well, Kaif came in and played a great inning under pressure along with Anil Kumble. I

it is funny you mention the rain. Srinath has been saying from Day 1 the pitch is a slow turner and Hussain is giving him credit for it. If it is indeed the rain which has done it (because I certainly do remember the pitch not being quite good for batting early on), just makes me wonder regarding the logic of Srinath.

If some one missed, some one else would have come in. Yes. I am not pointing to that aspect. Just that England had 4 of their first XI (the captain included missing). India had 1 in Yuvraj.

Both the teams played quite well but given the back ground, the very fact that England came near winning the match or being at a strong position twice (before the Kaif-Kumble partnership and at the end of day 4) would make me give them more credit.

I wouldn't blame England too much for not winning in the end. India have played admirably as well and the pitch is slow without a lot of variable bounce which you expect on Day 5.

Also, glad we can discuss cricket.

 

[Salamuddin]

it is funny you mention the rain. Srinath has been saying from Day 1 the pitch is a slow turner and Hussain is giving him credit for it. If it is indeed the rain which has done it (because I certainly do remember the pitch not being quite good for batting early on), just makes me wonder regarding the logic of Srinath.

If some one missed, some one else would have come in. Yes. I am not pointing to that aspect. Just that England had 4 of their first XI (the captain included missing). India had 1 in Yuvraj.

Both the teams played quite well but given the back ground, the very fact that England came near winning the match or being at a strong position twice (before the Kaif-Kumble partnership and at the end of day 4) would make me give them more credit.

I wouldn't blame England too much for not winning in the end. India have played admirably as well and the pitch is slow without a lot of variable bounce which you expect on Day 5.

Also, glad we can discuss cricket.

I just think England won't be over the moon about drawing and I don't think India will be despondent over the draw heading into Mohali.

I do feel though it's an opportunity lost for England --- I feel their only chance of beating India is batting first and making a big total which is what they did here. It is very tough when you bat second against Kumble and Harbhajan, something which England may very well have to do at Mumbai and/or Mohali.
Honestly, I can't see England beating India batting 2nd.

 

[Salamuddin]

it is funny you mention the rain. Srinath has been saying from Day 1 the pitch is a slow turner and Hussain is giving him credit for it. If it is indeed the rain which has done it (because I certainly do remember the pitch not being quite good for batting early on), just makes me wonder regarding the logic of Srinath.

If some one missed, some one else would have come in. Yes. I am not pointing to that aspect. Just that England had 4 of their first XI (the captain included missing). India had 1 in Yuvraj.

Both the teams played quite well but given the back ground, the very fact that England came near winning the match or being at a strong position twice (before the Kaif-Kumble partnership and at the end of day 4) would make me give them more credit.

I wouldn't blame England too much for not winning in the end. India have played admirably as well and the pitch is slow without a lot of variable bounce which you expect on Day 5.

Also, glad we can discuss cricket.

Also Blackwell shud be dropped.

 

[Sanz]

(because I certainly do remember the pitch not being quite good for batting early on)

Just wanted to point out that pitch was playing very well on Day two. A total of 4 wickets fell on day 2 including 3 tailenders and out of form Sehwag.

If some one missed, some one else would have come in. Yes. I am not pointing to that aspect. Just that England had 4 of their first XI (the captain included missing). India had 1 in Yuvraj.

Well India had a new comer in Santh, Jaffer/Kaif coming after some time, Bhajji coming after an injury too. So I am not going to count that argument in England's favor.

 

[Sanz]

Finally Dravid departs after a Fantastic innings. Well bowled Panesar. First test and wickets of Sachin, Kaif and Dravid.

Pathan in, I hope it's not one of those trials of Chappell where he wants Pathan to be apinch hitter.

 

[Pratters]

Well India had a new comer in Santh, Jaffer/Kaif coming after some time, Bhajji coming after an injury too. So I am not going to count that argument in England's favor.

Forced player removed not = selection by choice.

Also I am GLAD India is going for it, it looks. Is it too late or excellent decision to wait till now? Time will tell.