***Official*** England in India

[Tom Halsey]

Personally I am in favor of him retiring from test cricket, and focusing on the more important form of the game and World Cup.

ODIs are not more important than Tests.

 

[TT Boy]

ODIs are not more important than Tests.

To some Indians there are, just look at the lack of support the Indians have been getting in Nagpur, only showing interest when a wicket keeper famed for his heroics in one day cricket comes to the crease (and subsequently gets out).

 

[steds]

Personally I am in favor of him retiring from test cricket, and focusing on the more important form of the game and World Cup.

That cannot be described in any other way than laughably laughable.

 

[Anil]

40 when struggling = quite a good cricketer.

tendulkar has been pretty bad by his own standards recently....i personally feel the years of international cricket and the several different niggling injuries are taking their toll......

 

[Pratters]

837 @ 38.05

In 18 tests he has average of 48.7 if we include matches verses Bangladesh and Zimbabwe and 38 without them. If I am right that is what you have stated.

Okay firstly so when you remove Bangladesh and Zimbabwe matches, how many tests is it that? Also should that many tests be enough to gauge? Also, I know bad decisions are part of the game but has Tendulkar got a few more than his share recently? Pretty much so.

I have seen your arguement of him playing so many years and so it taking its toll on the body. Well, when Tendulkar started his cricket, he played international cricket while say a Dravid was playing juniors, domestic cricket. Now was Tendulkar playing more than a Dravid? Not really considering the cricket played back then was hardly as much as today and Tendulkar wasnt playing domestically except the very rare ocassion.

So I do not see the logic in your arguement regarding him deterioating cos of playing so many years.

If you said so many years may have had a toll on his body, different from some other player who has also played as many years, there is some logical thought process at least behind it.

Who among us is right? Only time can tell IMO.

 

[Sanz]

I am not arguing that its ordinary; I am arguing that its not horrible.

You can remove that one year due to an elbow injury, and the other year has been the one he is struggling. Ganguly's average was like 25...that's horrible. 40 = an adequete test cricketer. 40 when struggling = quite a good cricketer.

If you are going to remove one year due to the Elbow injury, then please remove his scores also during that period and I can tell you that his record for the remainder one year will look worse.

Also I would appreciate if we can keep Ganguly out of this discussion, he wasn't playing well and he deserved to be dropped. Unfortunately when it comes to Tendulkar, we start looking for excuses.

40 = Isn't an adequate test cricketer in this era especially when there is a good possibility of having a batsman who can score @41.

 

[Sanz]

Who among us is right? Only time can tell IMO.

The question is - How much more time ? It has been close to two years.

 

[Pratters]

For someone with the expectations on him, I'd say it's worse than if it were one of the more unsung players.

Great players have gone through same if not worse (Eg Lara). It is a part of cricket.

 

[silentstriker]

I knew I was going to get crucified when I said that.

I love test cricket, and much prefer it over ODI's. But we have to look at it realisitically in the subcontinent. As much as cricket lovers like Tests, and players like playing them, they just simply don't have much support as compared to an ODI.

If the purpose of cricket is to entertain, and ODI entertains more people, then it is a more important form of the game for those people. The majority of cricket watching public in India would much rather see Sachin play at top form in the World Cupt and other odi series rather than play tests against West Indies, South Africa and England.

I am not telling you how it should be, but how it is.

The question is - How much more time ? It has been close to two years.

End of west indies series.

 

[Pratters]

The question is - How much more time ? It has been close to two years.

Till his career doesn't end we do not know and cannot analyze who is right. Also I have questioned the two year thing in the reply to Marc when I question how many tests if we leave out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

 

[silentstriker]

That cannot be described in any other way than laughably laughable.

There is absolutely nothing more important than the world cup. If I had a choice between India winning the world cup vs. India winning a test series in Australia/England 5-0...I'd take the world cup any day.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Also, I know bad decisions are part of the game but has Tendulkar got a few more than his share recently? Pretty much so.

So has Lara, but Lara still doesn't average 38 over his last 12-15 Tests.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

There is absolutely nothing more important than the world cup. If I had a choice between India winning the world cup vs. India winning a test series in Australia/England 5-0...I'd take the world cup any day.

You what? Winning a Test series 5-0 against any of the top 5 teams in cricket is certainly a much greater achievement than winning any ODI tournament.

I can't see any justification for an ODI tournament where all the teams don't even play each other being more significant than a proper Test series between two proper teams.

5 days of cricket >>> 1 day of cricket.

 

[Pratters]

I knew I was going to get crucified when I said that.

I love test cricket, and much prefer it over ODI's. But we have to look at it realisitically in the subcontinent. As much as cricket lovers like Tests, and players like playing them, they just simply don't have much support as compared to an ODI.

If the purpose of cricket is to entertain, and ODI entertains more people, then it is a more important form of the game for those people. The majority of cricket watching public in India would much rather see Sachin play at top form in the World Cupt and other odi series rather than play tests against West Indies, South Africa and England.

I am not telling you how it should be, but how it is.

End of west indies series.

Majority of people would prefer a masala bollywood movie to a Satyajit Ray movie. Doesn't make the masala bollywood movie better.

It does bring in money like the masala bollywood movie. For the common, casual movie fan a lesser movie will be more entertaining. But for a person who goes deep into movies, he may find joy and great entertainment from a movie which isn't popular among the masses.

This does not mean saying a mainstream movie cannot be classy.

 

[Pratters]

So has Lara, but Lara still doesn't average 38 over his last 12-15 Tests.

Yes. But Lara has been going through a good time, Tendulkar isn't. Which is why the discussion. Also the discussion on is it really just time or shows a larger picture.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Great players have gone through same if not worse (Eg Lara). It is a part of cricket.

As true as that is, Lara went through it in the middle of his career. I don't think that there is any question that Tendulkar is in the last phase of his career. How good he is when that phase is finally complete, we wait to see.

My point being that Lara had his rough stretch when he was still relatively young, as evidenced by his ability to emerge with 4-5 pretty awesome years since then.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes. But Lara has been going through a good time, Tendulkar isn't. Which is why the discussion. Also the discussion on is it really just time or shows a larger picture.

My point has nothing to do with Lara or Tendulkar really.

It's that you can't bring in umpiring decisions as a factor at all, because players get bad decisions when they're going well and when they're not - as evidenced by Lara and Tendulkar. I know you mentioned that you acknowledge that bad decisions are part of the game, which makes me wonder why you've contributed it to the discussion at all. It's totally irrelevant to Tendulkar's struggles.

He has to perform within the game of cricket and bad decisions will always be a part of the game of cricket.

 

[silentstriker]

My personal Rating:

1) World Cup
2) Test series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
3) Test series win against Mediocre Team
4) ODI series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
5) ODI Series win against mediocre team
6) Test series win against zim/bang
7) ODI series win against zim/bang


The average subcontinent rating:

1) World Cup
2) ODI series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
3) ODI Series win against mediocre team
4) Test series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
5) ODI series win against zim/bang
6) Test series win against Mediocre Team
7) Test series win against zim/bang

 

[Tom Halsey]

There is absolutely nothing more important than the world cup. If I had a choice between India winning the world cup vs. India winning a test series in Australia/England 5-0...I'd take the world cup any day.

I'd far rather England retain the Ashes down under next year than win the World Cup in 2007. And I'm pretty sure I speak for quite a few people here.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

My personal Rating:

1) World Cup
2) Test series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
3) Test series win against Mediocre Team
4) ODI series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
5) ODI Series win against mediocre team
6) Test series win against zim/bang
7) ODI series win against zim/bang

It's only my personal opinion, but that's insane.

The average subcontinent rating:

1) World Cup
2) ODI series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
3) ODI Series win against mediocre team
4) Test series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
5) ODI series win against zim/bang
6) Test series win against Mediocre Team
7) Test series win against zim/bang

You're the spokesperson for the subcontinent now?