***Official*** England in India

[Scaly piscine]

It'd be unusual for the England seamers to have the same kind of impact on the last day of this match though. It'd be more of a time for the spinners to shine, and given the quality of the Indian batting against spinners (in particular) and the England spin attack (Panesar can't do it all...or can he?), I'd still back India if they're chasing anything under 300.

They should toss the ball to the South African offspinner if it's turning in the fourth innings.

It doesn't take a particularly good spinner to take wickets on a bunsen. India are good players of wrist spin particularly, but they're still vulnerable on bunsens against finger spinners just as NZ or England batsmen are vulnerable on a green, damp seamer's paradise.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I've heard Andy Strauss bowls some good left arm spin...

Boycs seemed to think he did earlier today......

I wouldn't be too surprised if KP got a few overs in the second innings - only a few though, and only if Panesar and Blackwell struggle.

 

[marc71178]

But add Jones & Gilo to the bowling attack making it full strenght

And if both had played then Hoggard probably wouldn't have done.

 

[marc71178]

Look, if you're standing in the outfield all day having only been allowed to bowl 6 overs watching the other spinner wheel away at the other end, you're hardly going to be full of confidence, are you?

So which one should they use?

The one that averaged 21 last season or the one that averaged 50odd?

 

[marc71178]

Blackwell seems to be doing a bit of an Ian Salisbury and highlighting the gap between county and test cricket..

Except Blackwell's county record isn't that crash hot either!

 

[marc71178]

I mean today even Bell has been prefered to him with the ball.

I think that made sense though.

They were playing Panesar fairly comfortably by that stage, so why bother bringing on the extremely poor mans substitute for him?

 

[marc71178]

Maybe a counter attack by the Indian batsmen early on would have been a better strategy when England started piling the pressure? I thought they got into too much of a defensive mode and let the bowlers dominate.

The thing is, 1 more wicket then and the deficit would've likely been around the 150+ area with England having had 3 hours or so to add to it tonight.

 

[marc71178]

So Raina can say goodbye to the test squad for now, Kaif has secured his spot as the reserve after this brilliant knock under pressure.

Reserve?

Surely he must be in the starting line up.

 

[Pratters]

The thing is, 1 more wicket then and the deficit would've likely been around the 150+ area with England having had 3 hours or so to add to it tonight.

Yeah. I am not blaming criticising the Indians. It was superb pressure put on by England more than any thing. Just that I felt they got bogged down, which I am usually not in favour of. It is a double edged sword counter attack and you have to back yourself in adverse situations to go for it. Which is why it is called 'counter' attack in the first place.

Maybe the line of thinking was the seamers would ball stray deliveries any way (As they had been doing before) and why take an unnecessary risk. Of course the english men applied pressure so well the Indians got out played and the match almost ran away from them in a short period, as it usually does in test cricket.

 

[marc71178]

Cricinfo and Indian media are obsessed with Tendulkar, Kaif played a great innings there so did Kumble. Instead of writting an article on their performance Cricinfo wrote crap article on Tendulkar on how he is vulnerable to newcomers.

One from August no less.

 

[Sanz]

How do you that Marc ? I mean you login after 20 hours and by that time the thread has advanced to close to 20 pages, yet not only you have the patience to go through all the posts but also reply to most of those.

Not to forget Pratush, no matter when you login, the moment you post a response to him, he replies within few minutes.

 

[marc71178]

Since Sydney test in 2003, India has played 22 tests (Source Cricinfo) -

Laxman - 981@33.82
Sachin - 1121@48.73 (18 tests)

These two man have scored only 5 centuries between themselves in 40 tests and that includes Lax's 100 against Zim and Sachin's double 100 in Bangladesh.

Take out the Bang and Zim matches and it looks pretty grim reading

792 @ 31.68 and 837 @ 38.05

 

[silentstriker]

An average of 38 isn't horrible for a batsman thats out of form. Averaging 40 shouldn't be a cause for any serious concern (a lot of good batsman scored 40 over their career).

An average of about 30, however, is definatly a cause for concern.

 

[marc71178]

How do you that Marc ? I mean you login after 20 hours and by that time the thread has advanced to close to 20 pages, yet not only you have the patience to go through all the posts but also reply to most of those.

I've been lurking all day to be honest, and just went through adding my comments that I'd already thought of (and hadn't been posted by someone else)

 

[marc71178]

An average of 38 isn't horrible for a batsman thats out of form.

In a series or 2, maybe not, but this is getting to be a long run now.

When does it stop being form and start being something else?

 

[Sanz]

He has been out of form for 2 years and 40ish is rather ordinary if not horrible.

 

[silentstriker]

He has been out of form for 2 years and 40ish is rather ordinary if not horrible.

I am not arguing that its ordinary; I am arguing that its not horrible.

You can remove that one year due to an elbow injury, and the other year has been the one he is struggling. Ganguly's average was like 25...that's horrible. 40 = an adequete test cricketer. 40 when struggling = quite a good cricketer.

 

[marc71178]

He has been out of form for 2 years and 40ish is rather ordinary if not horrible.

For someone with the expectations on him, I'd say it's worse than if it were one of the more unsung players.

 

[silentstriker]

In a series or 2, maybe not, but this is getting to be a long run now.

When does it stop being form and start being something else?

Probably if he doesn't improve by the end of the West Indies series.

Personally I am in favor of him retiring from test cricket, and focusing on the more important form of the game and World Cup.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Personally I am in favor of him retiring from test cricket, and focusing on the more important form of the game and World Cup.

Hmm...