***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[OverratedSanity]

Oh what the hell, might as well dig up another stat to prove my point since one is being ignored.

Since 2010, India have played 30 tests at home.

They've won the toss in 14 of those. Out of these 14 where they've won the toss, India won 10 tests, lost 2 and drew 2

They've lost the toss 16 . Out of these 16, India won 11 tests, drew 4 and lost 1.

Literally nothing points to the toss being an unfair advantage. I look forward to this too being ignored when people say the toss is all that matters in a few days time once again.

 

[grecian]

I like the confidence it seems to have given England fans at least on CW

Honestly, I dont think Ali or Ansari bowled better than Ashwin or Jadeja. Rashid was really good on a wicket which suits his style of bowling more than others whereas Mishy decided to go back to being crap for no reason all of a sudden. Plus, add the fact that English spinners were pretty much downhill skiing in as far as it is possible to do so for bowlers and Indian spinners bowled the best when they could not afford to have more than one fielder in catching positions, I think it is perfectly possible that we will dominate on a normal spinning track, unlike a flat slow one like Rajkot.

I'm obviously the most biased person in the World, but I think the Beard bowled pretty well, particularly in partnership with Rashid, his figures didn't flatter him, he kept an huge measure of control which allowed Adil to bowl more of his rubbish along with wicket-taking deliveries. I think many of us worried that all our spinners would be going at about 4 an over or more, which would have been a problem in keeping pressure on.

 

[indiaholic]

Historically 76 tests in India have been won by the team batting first and 65 by the team batting second.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Literally nothing points to the toss being an unfair advantage. I look forward to this too being ignored when people say the toss is all that matters in a few days time once again.

Well if the pitch turns from ball 1 then the toss doesn't really matter anyway and we are expecting a pitch like that for the next test.

 

[theegyptian]

Oh what the hell, might as well dig up another stat to prove my point since one is being ignored.

Since 2010, India have played 30 tests at home.

They've won the toss in 14 of those. Out of these 14 where they've won the toss, India won 10 tests, lost 2 and drew 2

They've lost the toss 16 . Out of these 16, India won 11 tests, drew 4 and lost 1.

Literally nothing points to the toss being an unfair advantage. I look forward to this too being ignored when people say the toss is all that matters in a few days time once again.

I have no opinion on this debate either way (at least for this discussion) but...

Your analysis doesn't take into account the quality of the teams playing. Clearly quality of the teams has a significant impact on who wins the game, moreso than the toss. If they are playing Australia (or Zimbabwe) in India right now they win every time regardless of the toss - because they are that much better. Doesn't mean the toss isn't signicant though.

I would suggest that, how many times in that 30 though did the team winning the toss choose to bat was a more relevant question? I would guess close to 30. That would suggest there is a pretty clear advantage to batting first(on most occasions) imo - at least in the eyes of the teams making the decisions.

 

[cnerd123]

I have no opinion on this debate either way (at least for this discussion) but...

Your analysis doesn't take into account the quality of the teams playing. Clearly quality of the teams has a significant impact on who wins the game, moreso than the toss. If they are playing Australia (or Zimbabwe) in India right now they win every time regardless of the toss - because they are that much better. Doesn't mean the toss isn't signicant though.

I would suggest that, how many times in that 30 though did the team winning the toss choose to bat was a more relevant question? I would guess close to 30. That would suggest there is a pretty clear advantage to batting first(on most occasions) imo - at least in the eyes of the teams making the decisions.

Kohli and Jadeja's waaaahs show us that even International cricketers are prone to the same fallacies as those of us posting on forums.

 

[Howe_zat]

I have no opinion on this debate either way (at least for this discussion) but...

Your analysis doesn't take into account the quality of the teams playing. Clearly quality of the teams has a significant impact on who wins the game, moreso than the toss. If they are playing Australia (or Zimbabwe) in India right now they win every time regardless of the toss - because they are that much better. Doesn't mean the toss isn't signicant though.

I would suggest that, how many times in that 30 though did the team winning the toss choose to bat was a more relevant question? I would guess close to 30. That would suggest there is a pretty clear advantage to batting first(on most occasions) imo - at least in the eyes of the teams making the decisions.

Even then not necessarily as batting first is what captains do if there is any doubt. Most teams take a 'bat first unless you have to' approach. So in places like England you can see teams bat first for every test in a series where the toss didn't actually matter much.

 

[Shri]

I think many of us worried that all our spinners would be going at about 4 an over or more, which would have been a problem in keeping pressure on.

That hasn't happened in ages. Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman were some of the best attacking batsmen against spin. I would say Rahane, Kohli, Dhawan etc are as good as Ganguly against spin at best.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ganguly was a beast vs spin. Selling him really short here.

 

[weldone]

Ganguly was a beast vs spin. Selling him really short here.

Haha yes, that lineup of

Gambhir
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Ganguly
Dhoni

was easily the best lineup against spin ever...comparing Rahane with Ganguly against spin is criminal

 

[listento_me]

I have no opinion on this debate either way (at least for this discussion) but...

Your analysis doesn't take into account the quality of the teams playing. Clearly quality of the teams has a significant impact on who wins the game, moreso than the toss. If they are playing Australia (or Zimbabwe) in India right now they win every time regardless of the toss - because they are that much better. Doesn't mean the toss isn't signicant though.

I would suggest that, how many times in that 30 though did the team winning the toss choose to bat was a more relevant question? I would guess close to 30. That would suggest there is a pretty clear advantage to batting first(on most occasions) imo - at least in the eyes of the teams making the decisions.

Excluding the England series thus far, each time India has won a test in home conditions this season (v SA and NZ) they have done so batting first. The two times they didn't get to bat first, they drew both matches.

So it clearly shows that not only is batting first a biggy for India, there's also a defensive mentality that sets in when the team batting second looks at a score.

 

[vcs]

Excluding the England series thus far, each time India has won a test in home conditions this season (v SA and NZ) they have done so batting first. The two times they didn't get to bat first, they drew both matches.

So it clearly shows that not only is batting first a biggy for India, there's also a defensive mentality that sets in when the team batting second looks at a score.

SA was last season. Are you counting the 2nd match which was rained out with India in an advantageous position?

 

[Shri]

Ganguly was a beast vs spin. Selling him really short here.

A level below the other names. He was great against left arm spinners but not as good as the others against other types of spin bowling.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm obviously the most biased person in the World, but I think the Beard bowled pretty well, particularly in partnership with Rashid, his figures didn't flatter him, he kept an huge measure of control which allowed Adil to bowl more of his rubbish along with wicket-taking deliveries. I think many of us worried that all our spinners would be going at about 4 an over or more, which would have been a problem in keeping pressure on.

Oh, I am not denying any of that. I just posted that because in my opinion, Moeen did not bowl qualifiably better than Ash. He did bowl well but I think the difference in wickets and opportunity for wickets is the respective position of the teams given that England got the chance to set the game up and they did it really really well. I am sure from an England fan PoV, the performance of the spinners will be mighty encouraging, as it should be, given that seam was considered to be the wicket taking option for you guys before this tour started.

 

[honestbharani]

SA was last season. Are you counting the 2nd match which was rained out with India in an advantageous position?

Of course he is. Who has ever needed factual backup to post biased opinions?

 

[Stapel]

To add something on the toss debate:

If we assume winning the toss (and batting first / not having to bat on day 5 in the 4th innings) is a very big advantage, if only for the sake of arguement, it is still safe to conclude it wasn't as much so in the recently concluded test. Especially England's 3rd innings opening partnership, 180 runs above 3 rpo, played on days 4 & 5, makes me think so.

 

[mackembhoy]

friendly reminder that the toss is so important in england that they've actually done away with it in county cricket.

Nah the option of batting/bowling first is much more changeable. The toss was down to helping spinners and then we completely ignored the results they brought.

Asia it's bat first then bat bat and then bat some more.

 

[Daemon]

Nah the option of batting/bowling first is much more changeable. The toss was down to helping spinners and then we completely ignored the results they brought.

Asia it's bat first then bat bat and then bat some more.

Pity England didn't try that tactic in Bangladesh

 

[grecian]

That hasn't happened in ages. Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman were some of the best attacking batsmen against spin. I would say Rahane, Kohli, Dhawan etc are as good as Ganguly against spin at best.

It's more that Moeen and Adil are hugely capable of bowling an huge ratio of bad balls, which even against moderate players of spin can get you smashed they haven't done this so far.

 

[Cabinet96]

Younis aside the Pakistan XI aren't exactly Sehwag/Dravid/Tendulkar/Laxman, and they still hit our spinners for 4-5 an over in the UAE.