*Official* England in Bangladesh Thread

[marc71178]

Yet you can judge a player only on results?

Richard can do what he wants.

 

[marc71178]

Titles are a guide only!

I agree, we should be looking at the stats behind the thread.

 

[Richard]

Mike Brearley wouldn't have made the England Test team if not for his captaincy prowess. I wouldn't be disappointed in his Test career because he never was the most talented batsman and he will be the first to admit it. Read his book "The Art of Captaincy."

Yet he was easily good enough to average in the high 30s for Middlesex.
If he thinks he wasn't that good he's kidding himself. I have wanted to get my hands on The Art Of Captaincy for ages, never managed it.

 

[Richard]

Yet you can judge a player only on results?

No... this is getting ridiculous, Liam. Especially from you.
I'll say it once more:
You can select a player on results (ie success or failure - if someone gets a good average you can't just drop them because they didn't deserve them).
The only stat I believe makes a fair reflection of batsmen's ability relative to one-another is the first-chance average, and even this always has to be taken in context of conditions relative to bowlers' ability and, as eddie pointed-out not long ago, is still not perfect.
Bowling I feel it's fair to judge on wickets taken with good balls relative to economy-rate and number of overs bowled. Even this is relying on the not-invariably-correct notion that economy-rates are an accurate reflection of accuracy (if you'll pardon the pun).

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yet he was easily good enough to average in the high 30s for Middlesex.
If he thinks he wasn't that good he's kidding himself. I have wanted to get my hands on The Art Of Captaincy for ages, never managed it.

Exceptional book. I have a signed copy.

High 30's isn't outstanding and generally batsmen average higher in FC cricket than in Test cricket.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

No... this is getting ridiculous, Liam. Especially from you.
I'll say it once more:
You can select a player on results (ie success or failure - if someone gets a good average you can't just drop them because they didn't deserve them).
The only stat I believe makes a fair reflection of batsmen's ability relative to one-another is the first-chance average, and even this always has to be taken in context of conditions relative to bowlers' ability and, as eddie pointed-out not long ago, is still not perfect.
Bowling I feel it's fair to judge on wickets taken with good balls relative to economy-rate and number of overs bowled. Even this is relying on the not-invariably-correct notion that economy-rates are an accurate reflection of accuracy (if you'll pardon the pun).

I'm just pointing out the seeming double standard. How can individual players be judged only on statistics, but a team made up of XI players can't be?

There's no such record as a first-chance average for a reason. The game states that a batsman is in until out. Whether he is dropped, almost out or bowled off a no-ball, the fact is that he is not out within the rules. To keep a first-chance average would be going against the most basic rule of cricket.

 

[luckyeddie]

Read the title guys Mike Brearly never played in Bangladesh:P

TWO smart-asses from Leicestershire.

 

[chris.hinton]

You're seriously going to have a go at him based on the fact he didn't take a wicket in the 2 overs he was given?!

He's had some bad results and is low in confidence I reckon - he is probably still our best spinner though.

But it a sad shame that he our best spinner though? it show the quality of that!

He is stuggling because he basically not good enough 1 wicket in helpful conditions (Ok Batty was not brilliant) but Batty somehow got dropped!!!!!! Strange that

Marc i know you enjoy watch him bowl his flat balls but a test average of 44 and it going up

DROP HIM!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jamee999]

TWO smart-asses from Leicestershire.

Whos the outher 1 I assume im 1 of them

 

[marc71178]

He is stuggling because he basically not good enough 1 wicket in helpful conditions (Ok Batty was not brilliant) but Batty somehow got dropped!!!!!! Strange that

Yeah stragne that they decided to pick the slow left armer since if they needed a second spinner Vaughan's off spin would be variety rather than 2 off spinners.

As for the flat thing - just give it up!

 

[luckyeddie]

Whos the outher 1 I assume im 1 of them

Of course. The other one is the duck.
I am too subtle and intellectually gifted to be considered a 'smart-ass'.
Furthermore, my modesty prevents me drawing attention to myself overmuch.

Welcome to Cricket Web.


p.s. My profile says 'Derby' - that's my post town. I live in Castle Donington which, geographically, is in NW Leicestershire.

 

[Craig]

OK, you have confused me. You go to Derby to post, or you post in Castle Donnington and just write Derby instead?

 

[PY]

OK, you have confused me. You go to Derby to post, or you post in Castle Donnington and just write Derby instead?

Post address (if I'm correct) means that his village/town is too small for snail mail posties to recognise it :P so therefore people write Derby as well and then it gets there because Eddie lives near Derby and they should know where Donnington. Also serves same purpose for CW. I should do the same with mine but can't be arsed.

 

[chris.hinton]

Yeah stragne that they decided to pick the slow left armer since if they needed a second spinner Vaughan's off spin would be variety rather than 2 off spinners.

As for the flat thing - just give it up!

or maybe the fact that there are best mates?

 

[marc71178]

or maybe the fact that there are best mates?

I assume you have a lot of facts to back this up?

Didn't think so.

Like it or not, he is our number one spinner, and a handy number 8 to boot.

OK, he may not turn it a mile, but how many people brought up in England do?

At the end of the day, his figures aren't so bad when you consider the number of friendly pitches he encounters a year, and although there's a (fairly strong) argument to not pick him at home, if they persist with a 4 bowlers plus Flintoff strategy, then he's equally as much use as a 5th seamer.

If they were to go in 6 batsmen, then Fred, Read and 3 bowlers, then that's a different story.

 

[marc71178]

Good return by Fred.

Can't believe an International went on without a single post!

Could this be the one to get Giles some confidence?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Good return by Fred.

Outstanding return is more appropriate.

 

[marc71178]

I guess it is more appropriate - OK, it's only Bangladesh, but his figures in ODI's particularly are on a definite upturn.

Where would he rank in terms of AR's in ODIs?

Top 2 or 3 IMO.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Him, Kallis and Pollock and it's not one I'm sticking my head on the block for..

Oh, screw it. Freddy 8D

 

[Richard]

High 30's isn't outstanding and generally batsmen average higher in FC cricket than in Test cricket.

No, not outstanding but it suggested Brears should have been averaging 33-4 in Tests, not 23-4.