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** Official Cricketweb Horseracing thread **
- Thread starter Blewy
- Start date
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
I have a feeling the issue might be that he doesn't stay 2m, his best flat runs are generally at 1m 6f. It also means Mullins lose a decent hurdler for the Winter, not that he's short of them. I could see him doing well in 12 furlong graded races in Aus.
Jumps season kicks off properly tomorrow here with the first big Cheltenham weekend.....Winter has arrived!!
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
Global star Elvstroem dies in France aged 24
Globetrotting Australian champion Elvstroem has died aged 24 at Haras de Petit De Tellier in Normandy, France.
thestraight.com.au
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
Without A Fight in barrier 1 for today's Group 1 Hong Kong Vase (2400m WFA). Historically, Melbourne Cup winners, whilst not many of them have run in the race, have run well.....all finishing in the top 5 each time they ran in the Hong Kong Vase. Without A Fight is one of the favourites or the favourite.
Horses to Win the Melbourne Cup: Record in the Hong Kong Vase
2013: Dunaden - 3rd
2012: Dunaden - 5th
2011: Dunaden - 1st
2010: Americain - 3rd
1999: Rogan Josh - 5th
Horses to Win the Melbourne Cup: Record in the Hong Kong Vase
2013: Dunaden - 3rd
2012: Dunaden - 5th
2011: Dunaden - 1st
2010: Americain - 3rd
1999: Rogan Josh - 5th
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
Without A Fight finished 12th in the G1 Homg Kong Vase. Either something went a miss or was simply outclassed. Had perfect run in transit and had nothing in the straight.
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
Slightly surprised to see Giavelotto win so impressively despite a troubled passage. Dubai Honour in 2nd for a UK 1-2. By far and away a career best for the winner who is basically a Group 2 stayer, didn't think he'd have that kind of turn of foot over 12 furlongs.
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
It was a surprise.
_Ed_
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I hope the owner of Romantic Warrior can be talked out of his Saudi Cup/Dubai World Cup idea.
Please just stick to the turf - he's won seven Group One races in Hong Kong now, plus one each in Japan and Australia, and I think he's well capable of winning something like the Dubai Turf or Sheema Classic.
Please just stick to the turf - he's won seven Group One races in Hong Kong now, plus one each in Japan and Australia, and I think he's well capable of winning something like the Dubai Turf or Sheema Classic.
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
Romantic Warrior should go to Europe.
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
Would be interesting to see him come to Royal Ascot for the Prince of Wales, which looks the ideal race for him (10 Furlongs). I was just looking back through his form trying to get a gauge on him. The Foxes in 4th on Sunday would be a Group 2 horse at best really , but he was well beaten.
I doubt he'd start favourite in a decent renewal of the Prince of Wales, but would be fun to see him try.
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
It's a different level in Europe. Best in the world at 1600m+. There's levels when it comes to world racing.
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
Romantic Warrior isn't better than So You Think nor on a similar level. He is below So You Think. So You Think beat better horses than what Romantic Warrior has been beating.
Overall in his career, So You Think raced in 6 countries: Australia, Ireland, USA, France, Dubai and England. He was also stretched out to 2400m (4th in an Arc) and further out to 3200m (3rd in a Melbourne Cup). He raced on Turf, Dirt and Tapeta. He faced more challenges than Romantic Warrior faced. He raced in the best and toughest racing jurisdiction in the world for 1600m+...that is in Europe.
There is no way Romantic Warrior is better or on the same level as So You Think. Good horse....very good horse....but below So You Think. Let's not forget he is the ONLY horse to win five Group 1 races in both hemispheres.
Hong Kong racing isn't as strong as it used to be.
_Ed_
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Fair points, and of course I agree So You Think was an outstanding horse. But I still don't personally believe there's much between them.
Look at Sunday's runner-up Liberty Island, who Romantic Warrior cruised away from (with McDonald standing up in the saddle). She's won four Group Ones in Japan, ran second behind Equinox in a Japan Cup, and was third to Rebel's Romance and Shahryar in a Dubai Sheema Classic. The third placegetter Tastiera is also a Group One winner and multiple placegetter at that level in Japan.
The runner-up in last year's Hong Kong Cup was the four-time English and Irish Group One winner Luxembourg (second to Auguste Rodin in the Irish Champion Stakes in his previous start before that race, with Nashwa third), while the Hong Kong Gold Cup second placegetter Voyage Bubble went on to easily win the Mile on Sunday. Those are all strong form references IMO.
But we'll just have to see what happens. Hopefully Romantic Warrior will campaign in Europe and provide some conclusive evidence either way. His wins in Japan and Australia have shown that he has the ability to travel and maintain his form, so hopefully he does that some more.
Look at Sunday's runner-up Liberty Island, who Romantic Warrior cruised away from (with McDonald standing up in the saddle). She's won four Group Ones in Japan, ran second behind Equinox in a Japan Cup, and was third to Rebel's Romance and Shahryar in a Dubai Sheema Classic. The third placegetter Tastiera is also a Group One winner and multiple placegetter at that level in Japan.
The runner-up in last year's Hong Kong Cup was the four-time English and Irish Group One winner Luxembourg (second to Auguste Rodin in the Irish Champion Stakes in his previous start before that race, with Nashwa third), while the Hong Kong Gold Cup second placegetter Voyage Bubble went on to easily win the Mile on Sunday. Those are all strong form references IMO.
But we'll just have to see what happens. Hopefully Romantic Warrior will campaign in Europe and provide some conclusive evidence either way. His wins in Japan and Australia have shown that he has the ability to travel and maintain his form, so hopefully he does that some more.
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
I'm sure So You Think would be beating the same horses Romantic Warrior has beaten. Remember, So You Think raced in Europe and during a strong era. Racing in Europe at 1600m+ is the toughest and best in the world but during that period it was very strong. The freak Frankel was running in Europe in the same period too.
I use Timeform ratings. So You Think got to 133 (Winx got to 134). Romantic Warrior...has he got to the 130 range for Timeform ratings......here's the answer....he hasn't (not yet). He produced 129 for his Hong Kong Cup win on 8 December. That's his new peak rating.
Romantic Warrior Draws Level With Laurel River On Timeform's Global Rankings
The Hong Kong Cup winner is behind only Cox Plate winner Via Sistina among horses still in training
Via Sistina has the highest Timeform rating this year...132...Cox Plate win....but I want to see her produce high ratings again and again on a consistent basis, juat like others have done - So You Think, Winx, Frankel and others. That's what the very VERY best horses do.
There's still a bit between So You Think and Romantic Warrior. So You Think is the better horse.
Romantic Warrior Draws Level With Laurel River On Timeform's Global Rankings
The Hong Kong Cup winner is behind only Cox Plate winner Via Sistina among horses still in training
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
Interesting discussion. So You Think was cleverly placed by O Brien in Europe to pick up Group 1's whilst avoiding Frankel, that was no doubt done for Stud value. It can be done with the right horses in Europe and O Brien is a master at it (that Luxembourg has picked up 4 would be further proof). I can't remember if it was injury that forced his retirement, but it was probably good timing given it was right at the point Frankel was about to step up in distance to compete in that sphere.I'm sure So You Think would be beating the same horses Romantic Warrior has beaten. Remember, So You Think raced in Europe and during a strong era. Racing in Europe at 1600m+ is the toughest and best in the world but during that period it was very strong. The freak Frankel was running in Europe in the same period too.
I use Timeform ratings. So You Think got to 133 (Winx got to 134). Romantic Warrior...has he got to the 130 range for Timeform ratings......here's the answer....he hasn't (not yet). He produced 129 for his Hong Kong Cup win on 8 December. That's his new peak rating.
Romantic Warrior Draws Level With Laurel River On Timeform's Global Rankings
The Hong Kong Cup winner is behind only Cox Plate winner Via Sistina among horses still in trainingwww.yahoo.com
Via Sistina has the highest Timeform rating this year...132...Cox Plate win....but I want to see her produce high ratings again and again on a consistent basis, juat like others have done - So You Think, Winx, Frankel and others. That's what the very VERY best horses do.
There's still a bit between So You Think and Romantic Warrior. So You Think is the better horse.
Romantic Warrior Draws Level With Laurel River On Timeform's Global Rankings
The Hong Kong Cup winner is behind only Cox Plate winner Via Sistina among horses still in training
The best 10 furling race this year in my eyes was the Juddmonte at York. City of Troy beating Calandagan with Bluestocking (who would win 2 further Group 1's including the Arc) in 4th. It just felt a proper solid race with the right horses coming to the front.
I'd love to see either Romantic Warrior or Via Sistina come to Europe, but there isn't really any need. They can pick up more money where they are without having to face as much competition.
The_CricketUmpire
State 12th Man
The fact remains that So You Think was beating world class horses in Europe. Much better than the horses Romantic Warrior has been beating. There's levels to this game they call world racing. Hong Kong racing isn't strong.
So You Think was injured which forced his retirement:
_Ed_
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The IFHA's ranking of the world's Group One races doesn't really agree with that. Here's the 2023 list: https://ifhaonline.org/resources/WTGradedRanking/LWGRank.asp?batch=7
And it's worth reiterating that the Hong Kong runner-up placed in both of those top two (albeit the 2024 edition of the Sheema).
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Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
I'd say there's an opening this year for an International horse to do well in Europe. Next year's 3 year old crop doesn't look particularly strong at the moment whilst some of the best older horses have been retired.
I do think injury helped So You Think - chances are he'd have met Frankel at York in his next run, which is where this freakish performance happened.