**Official** Bangladesh in West Indies

[tooextracool]

Because we won after 15 years. It's like even if the Aussies thrash England in the Ashes, they will consider it a great achievement.

agreed....beating pakistan in pakistan is probably considered to be an even greater achievement especially by the people in india.
but does that mean that just because they beat an average side that they have suddenly become a much better away team and are capable of winning series outside asia or that they have the best fast bowler in the world?

 

[luckyeddie]

It's the last point which is always going to sway it, though, Craig. "If we lose when going for a win, then that's too bad." In football parlance, 'doing a Keegan' is only something you would do if you were either
a) desperate
or
b) in a position of strength and confident of the outcome

because either way, you end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Bangladesh had a first innings lead of 64, then took 105 overs in adding another 271.
If we go back to the night before (94-6), that only afforded a lead of 158, and the two players at the crease were
a) naturally defensive, both scoring at a strike rate of around 30 throughout their careers
b) both with averages in the teens or low twenties.

To have asked them to play an unnatural game would have been quite suicidal under the circumstances, but let's assume that was the game plan. Well, after an hour, they lost the senior batsman - Saleh was out leaving them 7 down, 180 ahead and with numbers 8 and 9 at the wicket.

I appreciate that Rafique scored a brilliant century in the first innings, but you're asking him to do it again.

Just maybe, after they have learned how to avoid defeat a few more times, they will surely learn how to win. After all, so many people on this board were all for removing their test status - and that's only a year ago.

Yesterday was a day to settle for what they had, and wait for a better opportunity to come along, which it might sooner than you think. After all, they play the West Indies again in a few days.

 

[Loony BoB]

Oh I agree.

To me the whole aim of playing cricket, or in any sport, is to win, not draw.

Holy crap! You just pointed this out to me and I realised that Fleming is by far the worst captain in NZ cricket history.

 

[Slow Love™]

IMO, a draw was a pretty damn good achievement by the Bangladeshis. With all the play lost due to rain, I don't really think they did anything wrong in pushing for the draw. The consequence of pushing for the win was entertaining the possibility of a loss, and maybe I'd be harder on another team, but let's face it, they were looking VERY proppy on that fifth morning, and I think they did the right thing. I think it's unfair to criticize them for not being more aggressive - they were just trying to survive out there, with not many wickets in hand. A loss would have been disastrous, given all their hard work. Baby steps. They're really improving.

Holy crap! You just pointed this out to me and I realised that Fleming is by far the worst captain in NZ cricket history.

Heh, I actually do think Fleming has a problem closing for wins when he's on top of the opposition, but draws shouldn't be as maligned as they seem to be these days. There's been a lot of well-played and uplifting draws played out over history, and this was one of them.

 

[garage flower]

Didn't see a lot of the match and so I'm not ideally placed to comment, but the Windies really do seem to be getting off lightly on this thread for a display that, at times, appeared to plumb new depths of ineptitude.

The bowling that I saw on Day 1 from the quicks was awful. The pitch was obviously a shocker in terms of giving the bowlers a fair chance, but they bowled consistently short and to no discernible plan (though, to be fair, there was probably no plan to discern).

I haven't seen the full "Edwards' fielding bloomers" sequence yet, but from what I've heard it was farcical.

In the context of Bangladesh's 1st inns fielding, which was often of the "live hand grenade" variety, while occasionaly touching the dizzying heights of "hot potato", and taking into account the dead pitch and mediocre bowling attack, West Indies 1st inns total was an embarrassment.

Sarwan presumably bowled pretty well, judging by his figures, but his dismissal was more than Dwayne Smith-esque in its stupidity, it was George Dubya-esque! His approach seemed to be: "Well, if you're going to drop me when I offer a simple chance playing the pull shot, I'll damn well keep playing it until you catch me!"

Throw in, inexplicable pitch preparation and another row between Lara and the selectors and you have...well, a typical week at the office for West Indies Cricket.

Roll on Jamaica.

 

[chicane]

agreed....beating pakistan in pakistan is probably considered to be an even greater achievement especially by the people in india.
but does that mean that just because they beat an average side that they have suddenly become a much better away team and are capable of winning series outside asia or that they have the best fast bowler in the world?

They did raise their game tremendously in the ODI series....and you think Pathan is the best in the world, I don't. Oh wait that was supposed to be sarcasm (not funny, I'm trying my best to laugh though). India are capable of winning a series outside Asia just judging them by their performance in Australia. I guess you just have ot watch footage of those matches again to see how we batted over there.

 

[tooextracool]

India are capable of winning a series outside Asia just judging them by their performance in Australia. I guess you just have ot watch footage of those matches again to see how we batted over there.

so why didnt they win in australia then??they had enough chances and yet they didnt pull it off, largely because they've never been able to convert winning positions abroad in the past.....its almost like england struggling to beat australia in the wc because they just hadnt done so in such a long time.

 

[chicane]

so why didnt they win in australia then??they had enough chances and yet they didnt pull it off, largely because they've never been able to convert winning positions abroad in the past.....its almost like england struggling to beat australia in the wc because they just hadnt done so in such a long time.

They were very dissapointed after Sydney. But for the millionth time it was Australia!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

On a different note, you've got to feel for Dave Mohammed. He debuted in South Africa and took 3 wickets in his first Test then was dropped. Consider that and that the leading West Indian wicket-taker in the series was Edwards with 8 - in 4 Tests. He was recalled for the English series, but got no further than the provisional squad.

He was then recalled for the Test against Bangladesh and looked set to play until the groundsman suggested to the selectors that they play 4 quicks, as the pitch would not take any spin. Well, Sarwan then proceeded to take more wickets than any one West Indian seamer and proved that totally wrong. Now Dave Mohammed has been dropped again as Omari Banks returns. That extremely tough luck there. He must be very low right now.

 

[garage flower]

On a different note, you've got to feel for Dave Mohammed. He debuted in South Africa and took 3 wickets in his first Test then was dropped. Consider that and that the leading West Indian wicket-taker in the series was Edwards with 8 - in 4 Tests. He was recalled for the English series, but got no further than the provisional squad.

He was then recalled for the Test against Bangladesh and looked set to play until the groundsman suggested to the selectors that they play 4 quicks, as the pitch would not take any spin. Well, Sarwan then proceeded to take more wickets than any one West Indian seamer and proved that totally wrong. Now Dave Mohammed has been dropped again as Omari Banks returns. That extremely tough luck there. He must be very low right now.

Yes, the Windies selectors seem to have a habit of treating spinners pretty shabbily (Ramnarine, McGarrell are other recent examples).

Do you think Banks is likely to come in for a batsman (Shiv?), bowler (Lawson?) or not at all for the 2nd test?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes, the Windies selectors seem to have a habit of treating spinners pretty shabbily (Ramnarine, McGarrell are other recent examples).

Do you think Banks is likely to come in for a batsman (Shiv?), bowler (Lawson?) or not at all for the 2nd test?

Ideally I would like to have Bravo in for Chanders, Baugh in for Jacobs and Banks for Lawson, but Baugh and Bravo aren't in the squad, so just Banks for Lawson.

Re: Ramnarine; when he retired he cited one of the reasons as spinners not having any place in West Indian cricket. I didn't agree with his retirement at the time, but now I've come to sympathize. The WICB seem to think that Marshall and Roberts are still playing, not Best and Edwards. We can't play a four-pronged pace attack and expect to knock over teams because it's a four-pronged pace attack. At the moment we have a lot of talent in the pace department, but not enough proven consistent quality to host the WICB's fantasies.

 

[garage flower]

Ideally I would like to have Bravo in for Chanders, Baugh in for Jacobs and Banks for Lawson, but Baugh and Bravo aren't in the squad, so just Banks for Lawson.

Re: Ramnarine; when he retired he cited one of the reasons as spinners not having any place in West Indian cricket. I didn't agree with his retirement at the time, but now I've come to sympathize. The WICB seem to think that Marshall and Roberts are still playing, not Best and Edwards. We can't play a four-pronged pace attack and expect to knock over teams because it's a four-pronged pace attack. At the moment we have a lot of talent in the pace department, but not enough proven consistent quality to host the WICB's fantasies.

Agree with your sentiments on the 4-prong. Lara said much the same thing in his newspaper column.

I'd more or less agree with your ideal team selection. Shiv just hasn't been himself all season and from the bits I saw in St Lucia Lawson didn't seem to be ready for a comeback. It would be nice to feel secure enough to give Baugh a run, were he in the squad, but even against Bangladesh the batting looks too shaky, so I'd still stick with Ridley.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

It would be nice to feel secure enough to give Baugh a run, were he in the squad, but even against Bangladesh the batting looks too shaky, so I'd still stick with Ridley.

'Twould be great to give the old man a rest before a tough tour of England though. I don't see any problem in our batting considering the Bangladeshi attack. Only Devon Smith and Chanderpaul didn't give away their wickets in the first Test and I still think that we're capable of putting up huge numbers.

 

[badgerhair]

Just maybe, after they have learned how to avoid defeat a few more times, they will surely learn how to win. After all, so many people on this board were all for removing their test status - and that's only a year ago.

Yesterday was a day to settle for what they had, and wait for a better opportunity to come along, which it might sooner than you think. After all, they play the West Indies again in a few days.

Maybe so, but I still think it's silly that they're playing under the banner of Test cricket.

What I watched over the last few days on TV was a poorly-selected WI side bowling poorly on a flat pitch, and some mediocre batsmen staying there for ages until someone could be bothered to catch it. WI's performance was horrible. You wouldn't criticise it too much as a warm-up game against a depleted county XI - just point out that WI were clearly in need of a bit of tuning up before the Tests get under way. But that is all that Bangladesh currently are: a team which would struggle to get promotion into div 1 of the county championship, and would probably be challenging for a place in the bottom three of div II. To put the Bangles' feat into perspective, Kent beat New Zealand the other day.

The first innings performances reminded me of England's first Test against the Bangular ones: England played rather casually and didn't really have much idea about what the various Bangles actually did, and there were false hopes that a real game was being made of it. Looked like the same sort of thing here (notice the normal leg-side field set to Habitual Basher in I1 and the packed legside field in I2 after they had realised that he only plays an offside shot as a matter of last resort or if he's feeling ill).

I don't mind giving Bangladesh a patronising pat on the collective head for a good effort, but let's not fool ourselves that this was an exhibition of the best the game has to offer. A reasonably decent side managed to play pretty embarrassingly against a poor side, but this did not deserve to be called "Test cricket".

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

Irrespective of what you or I think, Mike, Bangladesh are now a test-playing nation, for better or for worse, and I am absolutely delighted that they were able to justify that status for once.

 

[badgerhair]

Irrespective of what you or I think, Mike, Bangladesh are now a test-playing nation, for better or for worse, and I am absolutely delighted that they were able to justify that status for once.

I'm well aware of their status. And I'd be delighted if they did justify that status.

But the point I'm making, obviously not very well, is that I am not delighted that this ghastly performance by WI is being taken as evidence of Bangladesh having justified that status.

This was a batsman's paradise of a pitch, but only Bashar of the Bangladeshi batsmen who managed to stay in for a time seemed to have any idea about cashing in on it. Instead, they batted insipidly.

They've certainly proved that they're good enough to play as a first-class team. They're not hopeless cricketers.

But this performance no more justifes their Test status than Martin Saggers's three wickets at 20.66 against them last year makes him a world-class bowler.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

I'm well aware of their status. And I'd be delighted if they did justify that status.

But the point I'm making, obviously not very well, is that I am not delighted that this ghastly performance by WI is being taken as evidence of Bangladesh having justified that status.

This was a batsman's paradise of a pitch, but only Bashar of the Bangladeshi batsmen who managed to stay in for a time seemed to have any idea about cashing in on it. Instead, they batted insipidly.

They've certainly proved that they're good enough to play as a first-class team. They're not hopeless cricketers.

But this performance no more justifes their Test status than Martin Saggers's three wickets at 20.66 against them last year makes him a world-class bowler.

Cheers,

Mike

See?

I told you Martin Saggers was a world-class performer

(walks away from this conversation, whistling, satisfied)

 

[roseboy64]

The pitch in Jamaica usually helps pacers a lot if they DO the RIGHT THINGS.Helps spinners too but most likely there'll be four pacers.

 

[tooextracool]

They were very dissapointed after Sydney. But for the millionth time it was Australia!

that is not an excuse......they had their chances,1-0 up in the series, lost it in melbourne and again in sydney they couldnt quite get the job done. as i said earlier a large part of that has to do with not knowing how to win abroad.
its not just in this series either.....in zimbabwe they were 1-0 up and ended up 1-1 and against the WI they were 1-0 up and lost 2-1.

 

[tooextracool]

Sarwan presumably bowled pretty well, judging by his figures, but his dismissal was more than Dwayne Smith-esque in its stupidity, it was George Dubya-esque! His approach seemed to be: "Well, if you're going to drop me when I offer a simple chance playing the pull shot, I'll damn well keep playing it until you catch me!"

absolutely true....sarwan's dismissal was nothing short of pathetic. hes the vice captain of their side and is perhaps on the verge of being captain after this series....thats just poor cricket and this is what i questioned when someone asked me why is hussain a better player than sarwan? its just that for all the talent he has, he hasnt matured at all over the last 4 years.