***Official***Australian Domestic Season Thread 2009/2010

[vic_orthdox]

Tom cooper will play for holland in the pro 40 comp as a local,he maybe able to represent holland in interntionals.

Mother is Dutch.

 

[age_master]

My god that sounds ****ed on so many levels.

1. Why the **** tinker with the actual teams in the Big Bash; teams that people identify with? Cricket in Australia has never been city-based. City-based teams have no history.

3. Why put players into a pool, where you would end up having West Australians playing for Eastern states, and Eastern state players playing for states where they have never resided? How do you identify with a team when blow-ins are populating it?

Absolutely ****ed on so many levels.

Its trying to be more like the IPL. I dont think we need that though. I cant say i like the idea of a city team much at all, would rather they added an ACT and/or NT team.

 

[NUFAN]

GEORGE BAILEY, GOOD WORK SON!

So glad that he's been called up.

 

[Riggins]

Tom cooper will play for holland in the pro 40 comp as a local,he maybe able to represent holland in interntionals.

Mother is Dutch.

Yes, I think playing club cricket in Holland aswell. Would mean that the club side would have an overseas pro also, could be a decent lineup haha.

 

[Nate]

Will as always be heading to the SCG if people want to join.

 

[Noble One]

I know the state of spin-bowling in Australia is not great, but have we ever had a worse Sheffield Shield season than 2009/2010?

A quick scan of the bowling records for this season reveals the following.

Bryce McGain is the highest wicket-taker of all spinners(20th overall) with 15 wickets at 42.60.

The front-liners

- O'Brien 14 @56.07
- Smith 14 @ 60.35
- Krejza 13 @ 53.38
- O'Keefe 11@ 31.63
- Doherty 9 @ 27.77
- Bailey 9 @ 58.44
- Simpson 8 @ 75.75
- Holland 6 @ 70.66
- Heal 5 @ 52.00
- Doran 1 @ 267.00
- Casson 2 @ 34.50
- Mangan 1 @ 80.00

Some part-timers

- North 12 @ 30.41
- Voges 6 @ 23.33
- White 2 @ 62.50
- Hussey 1 @ 122.00
- Warner 1 @ 12.00

Generally one or two spinners have had a decent season over the past decade (be it Hauritz, McGain, White, Casson, Cullen, Bailey or MacGill). This season the only bowlers who can be considered to have a decent season are either part-timers (North) or bowlers who are obviously not going to go beyond state level cricket (O'Keefe, Doherty).

Going into the season many would have expected great things from the Australian spin brigade. Krejza had his new doosra. Holland had just been selected for the ODI's in India. Smith was under the direction of Australia's greatest leg-spinner. McGain had come off a brilliant 2008/2009.

I find it incredible that not one spinner can have close to a standout season. Most would agree that the quality of batsman playing in the Sheffield Shield this season is almost at the lowest point it has been for the past two decades (most sides are carrying one or two batsman who would never have been selected just two or three seasons ago). The spin-bowling form may just be a true reflection of the quality of bowlers, or the trend away from spin conducive surfaces (MCG wicket this season has barely seen a ball turn an inch).

Despite the push by Cricket Australia through the futures league, and the general search for the next Australia super-star spinner, the state associations have shown little willingness to select young-spinners. This situation is a worry for Australian cricket going forward.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Here's a thought: for a spinner to be Sheffield Shield quality at an age of 23 or less is rare. Why push for these spinners, rather than let them come through naturally by making them work harder and prove their worth against proper 2nd XI batsmen, not compromised sides.

 

[Top_Cat]

Here's a thought: for a spinner to be Sheffield Shield quality at an age of 23 or less is rare. Why push for these spinners, rather than let them come through naturally by making them work harder and prove their worth against proper 2nd XI batsmen, not compromised sides.

See your point to a degree but it's not helping guys like Cullen. Bloke turns up almost every day at SACA, bowls his guts out, is marooned in Adelaide grade averaging 30+ this year. The only guys to really dominate Adelaide grade for many years have been wristies before anyone says anything, the pitches make it very tough for a finger spinner to do well.

I gather the above is a dig at the Futures? See your point there, tbh. It's not just batting, either; Cooper has bashed Futures attacks this year but in most of his knocks for SA, has hit a couple of good shots before getting out forcing the pace against better bowlers. It's a bit too easy, really.

 

[Riggins]

Here's a thought: for a spinner to be Sheffield Shield quality at an age of 23 or less is rare. Why push for these spinners, rather than let them come through naturally by making them work harder and prove their worth against proper 2nd XI batsmen, not compromised sides.

I gather the above is a dig at the Futures?

Yea I agree, I really think the futures format could be better.

The only guys to really dominate Adelaide grade for many years have been wristies before anyone says anything, the pitches make it very tough for a finger spinner to do well.

Also maybe because finger spinners in general bowl pump.

 

[Top_Cat]

Also maybe because finger spinners in general bowl pump.

Not helped by the best spinners not playing A-grade too.

It's an old example now which I've posted before but I'm led to believe, sadly, it still applies. Matthew Minagall was a bloke known as having lots of potential when moving up the junior grades With West Torrens. Was told if he tried to spin up, he'd be playing C-grade but if he bowled straight, he'd be in the A-grade side. Played a handful of state games and barely turned one off the straight despite having the ability to rip them miles. Many a spinner has been lost to SA cricket for the same reason.

 

[Riggins]

Not helped by the best spinners not playing A-grade too.

It's an old example now which I've posted before but I'm led to believe, sadly, it still applies. Matthew Minagall was a bloke known as having lots of potential when moving up the junior grades With West Torrens. Was told if he tried to spin up, he'd be playing C-grade but if he bowled straight, he'd be in the A-grade side. Played a handful of state games and barely turned one off the straight despite having the ability to rip them miles. Many a spinner has been lost to SA cricket for the same reason.

How long ago was this? Would think there would be more too it than that though. If he's going to rip it, whatever grade, will be a similar result. If you rip it and bowl well, you take wickets, if you throw it up and bowl **** you get smacked. Obviously if you're going to get pumped throwing it up in grade cricket you will in state matches too, and if when he throws it up it's c grade spin, well thats not helping the a grade team anyway, never mind state cricket/higher. Anyway, /rant

 

[vic_orthdox]

How long ago was this? Would think there would be more too it than that though. If he's going to rip it, whatever grade, will be a similar result. If you rip it and bowl well, you take wickets, if you throw it up and bowl **** you get smacked. Obviously if you're going to get pumped throwing it up in grade cricket you will in state matches too, and if when he throws it up it's c grade spin, well thats not helping the a grade team anyway, never mind state cricket/higher. Anyway, /rant

Spin bowling requires you to spin it. Its better for his long term future to be continuing to spin the ball and work on his accuracy slowly, so that he can combine them and make himself a quality first class bowler. However, the sort of pressure described above sees him sacrifice spin for a short term achievement, which limits his ability to end up being as successful as he could have been.

 

[Noble One]

Be interested to know from supporters of each state who they consider the top 2 - 3 spinners in the state. Are they currently in the state side? Are they dominating Grade? Would they prefer to select an ageing spinner who could be serviceable or the young upcoming spinner who may or may not be a star?

The use of all-rounder spin bowlers such as O'Brien, Smith and Simpson has possibly saved many of the sides from needing a top quality spinner. Cannot be considered a sustainable plan though.

 

[Top_Cat]

How long ago was this? Would think there would be more too it than that though. If he's going to rip it, whatever grade, will be a similar result. If you rip it and bowl well, you take wickets, if you throw it up and bowl **** you get smacked. Obviously if you're going to get pumped throwing it up in grade cricket you will in state matches too, and if when he throws it up it's c grade spin, well thats not helping the a grade team anyway, never mind state cricket/higher. Anyway, /rant

Minagall last played around the mid-90's but I haven't heard anything to suggest the situation has changed much.

Adelaide decks are very flat. Makes it hard to take wickets no matter what you bowl and when the captain yanks you from the attack at the first sign of trouble..... If you're trying to give the ball a tweak, you need a fairly supportive captain. Adelaide grade has traditionally been the preserve of medium-pace swing bowlers and, in fairness, the conditions do suit that style of bowling quite well. But SA's spinners aren't going to develop if they are only getting overs where they bowl darts.

Michael Munday dominated a few seasons ago so it can be done. But then, being a blow-in at the Lehmann academy, Adelaide had to give him plenty of overs so he had lots of opportunity. Historically, it's more been opportunity than ability which has been lacking in Adelaide.

 

[Top_Cat]

Spin bowling requires you to spin it. Its better for his long term future to be continuing to spin the ball and work on his accuracy slowly, so that he can combine them and make himself a quality first class bowler. However, the sort of pressure described above sees him sacrifice spin for a short term achievement, which limits his ability to end up being as successful as he could have been.

Spot.

 

[Riggins]

Spin bowling requires you to spin it. Its better for his long term future to be continuing to spin the ball and work on his accuracy slowly, so that he can combine them and make himself a quality first class bowler. However, the sort of pressure described above sees him sacrifice spin for a short term achievement, which limits his ability to end up being as successful as he could have been.

Maybe. Or maybe it allowed him to play higher than he would have otherwise. Who's to say he had the talent to land big-spinning deliveries consistently even with another, say 10 years of hard work, or whether that would even make him a better bowler. It's not just hard work and spinning up which makes guys state spinners IMO, there is an x factor. Maybe this person doesn't have that, and wouldn't play state cricket otherwise, and so by changing to a more defensive approach does get the most success out of their ability.

Don't get me wrong, I don't rate spinners who just bowl darts and try and bowl dots, but I just don't agree that guys who throw it up and get carted are better bowlers/should be encouraged because the spin the ball up

 

[Riggins]

Michael Munday dominated a few seasons ago so it can be done. But then, being a blow-in at the Lehmann academy, Adelaide had to give him plenty of overs so he had lots of opportunity. Historically, it's more been opportunity than ability which has been lacking in Adelaide.

Played for Glenelg which would be the most spin friendly deck I would say. Also was a first class spinner at the time, in career best form (took a f.c 10/match months later), and bowled leg spin not off.

 

[stephen]

QLD with a good start today.

Love all of the talk about spinners. Makes me long for the next grade season.

 

[Top_Cat]

Played for Glenelg which would be the most spin friendly deck I would say. Also was a first class spinner at the time, in career best form (took a f.c 10/match months later), and bowled leg spin not off.

Haha, first I've ever heard of Glenelg being called spin-friendly. The Horses have a history of producing some pretty mean pace bowlers (Gladigau, Sincock, the Martins) and decent batters but Mallett's the only spinner of note I can think of.

Anyway, it's less that spinners are being tried and failed but that they're really not being given much of a go. So they find ways of staying in the top sides and one of those ways is to ping the ball and go for less than 3/over, give the pacers a rest, etc. The point is that bowlers trying to give the ball a rip and developing their craft that way is far more likely to result in a wicket-taking FC bowler than telling them to shelve such foolish notions and bowl straight. Many more bowlers have succeeded at FC level of the former type than the latter so I reckon some leeway while learning their craft (especially while young) should be a standing order for grade level. The point of a grade comp diminishes greatly if it's not producing state cricketers and, at present, SACA grade really isn't, well, making the grade.

 

[Kylez]

Speaking of adelaide spinners, what ever happened to Jason Donnelly ( I think that was his name ) he was supposed to be a good prospect.