***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[Top_Cat]

I vote this interview with Phil DeFreitas as the most non-committal and 'greatest avoidance of giving an actual opinion' of all time;

http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/210651.html

I mean, geez what dosage of Prozac was he on when they asked him these questions??

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

His only critics is Richard and himself.

To be fair, I think there are some legitimate questions among English fans as to how good he is on seaming wickets, at least these days. I don't think he has any problems on them mind you, but certainly this tour will give him a chance to show that emphatically. He's also been in fairly average form over the last 12 months or so, and if he has a particularly poor Ashes I think his spot may be in danger to Mike Hussey soon.

There's also TEC.

 

[Mister Wright]

To be fair, I think there are some legitimate questions among English fans as to how good he is on seaming wickets, at least these days. I don't think he has any problems on them mind you, but certainly this tour will give him a chance to show that emphatically. He's also been in fairly average form over the last 12 months or so, and if he has a particularly poor Ashes I think his spot may be in danger to Mike Hussey soon.

There's also TEC.

Along with Hayden's prolific (sp) summers on the seaming 'Gabba wickets, he has also had some very successful English summers, so I'm sure he'll be able to handle himself. His place in the side will not be under scrutiny unless he has a very average series and we lose or his poor form continues during the Australian summer. I would be very wary of Hayden if I was England, after a long lay-off he will be chomping at the bit. His 70 odd in the 20/20 tour game is an ominous sign, and if he gets cracking in the one dayers - watch out!

 

[Top_Cat]

He's also been in fairly average form over the last 12 months or so, and if he has a particularly poor Ashes I think his spot may be in danger to Mike Hussey soon.

You reckon? I'd say Hayden would have to forget how to bat at all to be dropped for a 30+ player who averaged in the low-30's for WA last year. It's not as if Hussey is scoring an avalanche of runs at the moment to put pressure of Haydos, regardless of how bad an Ashes series he has. Yes he's batted well in the ODI's in NZ but then batting at 6 in a ODI side is a little different to opening the batting in the Test side.

Personally, I think Hussey is out of teh running for a Test opening spot these days. I would hazard a guess that the Aussie selectors would be looking for a bit of new blood for their next opening pair.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

You reckon? I'd say Hayden would have to forget how to bat at all to be dropped for a 30+ player who averaged in the low-30's for WA last year. It's not as if Hussey is scoring an avalanche of runs at the moment to put pressure of Haydos, regardless of how bad an Ashes series he has. Yes he's batted well in the ODI's in NZ but then batting at 6 in a ODI side is a little different to opening the batting in the Test side.

Personally, I think Hussey is out of teh running for a Test opening spot these days. I would hazard a guess that the Aussie selectors would be looking for a bit of new blood for their next opening pair.

I think the selectors have made it fairly clear that there are 5 players on the outer that are next in line for test spots - Hodge, Hussey, Watson, Lee and Tait. Obviously Hodge and Lee are next in line for the respective batting and bowling spots, but if Hayden were to have an absolute shocker (or an injury, or retire), it would be either Katich or Hussey who would open in his stead, and hopefully the selectors would have some sense and pick Hussey. It's worth remembering that despite his modest average last season he still has a career FC average in the 50s, and has absolutely dominated in county cricket for many years now, and he still hit a double hundred last Pura Cup season, and he's in good form currently in county cricket. Also, when Hayden looked like he might miss a test in New Zealand, Hussey was on stand-by to fly over from Australia to take his spot.

There's no doubt in my mind that Hussey is the first choice opener among those outside of the current squad, and if Hayden were to have an absolute shocker of a tour... failing in the ODIs and the tests, there's a notable chance that he would be dropped, and if he was Hussey would be the logical choice to take his spot.

 

[Top_Cat]

think the selectors have made it fairly clear that there are 5 players on the outer that are next in line for test spots - Hodge, Hussey, Watson, Lee and Tait. Obviously Hodge and Lee are next in line for the respective batting and bowling spots, but if Hayden were to have an absolute shocker (or an injury, or retire), it would be either Katich or Hussey who would open in his stead, and hopefully the selectors would have some sense and pick Hussey. It's worth remembering that despite his modest average last season he still has a career FC average in the 50s, and has absolutely dominated in county cricket for many years now, and he still hit a double hundred last Pura Cup season, and he's in good form currently in county cricket. Also, when Hayden looked like he might miss a test in New Zealand, Hussey was on stand-by to fly over from Australia to take his spot.

There's no doubt in my mind that Hussey is the first choice opener among those outside of the current squad, and if Hayden were to have an absolute shocker of a tour... failing in the ODIs and the tests, there's a notable chance that he would be dropped, and if he was Hussey would be the logical choice to take his spot.

Certainly Hussey and Hodge appear to be first-choice in case of injuries, sudden loss of form, etc. but I have my doubts as to whether they're looked upon as long-term replacements. I get the feeling that if they were looked upon as the natural successors rather than stop-gap players, they would have been given opportunities years ago because both have been in far better form than they are now previously when there were opportunities. When Mark Waugh was dropped, why didn't Hodge get given a go then? When Slater, Blewett and Elliott dropped out of favour, why wasn't Hussey at least given a go? Both Hussey and Hodge were never even considered when their form and opportunities warranted at least a try in the Test side and part of this is because I believe the selectors have never thought of them as long-term replacements.

They're on standby now because there really are no others who could just jump into the spots and perform adequately without devlopment but if Hayden has a great or even adequate series, I doubt we'll hear of Hussey as a Test possibility again. Sad for both him and Hodge considering just how good they are but in a year, I think the Aussies selectors will be looking to the future.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Certainly Hussey and Hodge appear to be first-choice in case of injuries, sudden loss of form, etc. but I have my doubts as to whether they're looked upon as long-term replacements. I get the feeling that if they were looked upon as the natural successors rather than stop-gap players, they would have been given opportunities years ago because both have been in far better form than they are now previously when there were opportunities. When Mark Waugh was dropped, why didn't Hodge get given a go then? When Slater, Blewett and Elliott dropped out of favour, why wasn't Hussey at least given a go? Both Hussey and Hodge were never even considered when their form and opportunities warranted at least a try in the Test side and part of this is because I believe the selectors have never thought of them as long-term replacements.

They're on standby now because there really are no others who could just jump into the spots and perform adequately without devlopment but if Hayden has a great or even adequate series, I doubt we'll hear of Hussey as a Test possibility again. Sad for both him and Hodge considering just how good they are but in a year, I think the Aussies selectors will be looking to the future.

It's also worth remembering that Hussey has only been "in his 30s" for two weeks. Come the 2007 WC, there's concievably 6 or 7 Australian players who might be retiring (not that I think all of them will at once, mind you). Langer and Hayden are two of these players, and at that point Hussey will have just gone 32. There's still room for him in the side then, should no other replacement stand up between now and then. It's pretty clear that the top two openers in Australian cricket outside of the test side are Hussey and Jaques, and the latter is likely to have an extended test career, I think. The former is probably a bit unlucky because of his age, but so was Hayden, and Hayden still got a decent career in between 2001 and now. Hodge is in the same boat I think - he might miss out to someone else like a Watson or a Thornley or whoever, but as it stands I wouldn't be giving up just yet given the age of one Damien Martyn.

 

[Mister Wright]

It's also worth remembering that Hussey has only been "in his 30s" for two weeks. Come the 2007 WC, there's concievably 6 or 7 Australian players who might be retiring (not that I think all of them will at once, mind you). Langer and Hayden are two of these players, and at that point Hussey will have just gone 32. There's still room for him in the side then, should no other replacement stand up between now and then. It's pretty clear that the top two openers in Australian cricket outside of the test side are Hussey and Jaques, and the latter is likely to have an extended test career, I think. The former is probably a bit unlucky because of his age, but so was Hayden, and Hayden still got a decent career in between 2001 and now. Hodge is in the same boat I think - he might miss out to someone else like a Watson or a Thornley or whoever, but as it stands I wouldn't be giving up just yet given the age of one Damien Martyn.

I beg to differ. While I agree that both Hussey and Jacques are fine players, what does it take for Jimmy Maher to get a look in? He never has a poor season, and while he might not top the averages every season he is at least in the top 5 or 6. The way he was handled by the selectors in the one day team was an utter disgrace, and would not be out of place with the Baggy Green on his head.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I beg to differ. While I agree that both Hussey and Jacques are fine players, what does it take for Jimmy Maher to get a look in? He never has a poor season, and while he might not top the averages every season he is at least in the top 5 or 6. The way he was handled by the selectors in the one day team was an utter disgrace, and would not be out of place with the Baggy Green on his head.

As much as I am a fan of Maher, and a year or two ago I would have agreed he was next in line alongside Hussey, that's not the case any more. With all due respect to Jimmy, he averages 10 runs less an innings than both Hussey and Jaques, he's older than either of them, and his form in recent times hasn't been up to the standard of Jaques, and his career record isn't of the standard of Hussey. He's probably next in the country though, given the poor form of Elliot.

 

[jlo33692]

does someone want to have a crack at the makeup of the first test for both teams?
then can someone have a crack at the first test in aus (gabba) IN 2 YEARS TIME who wont and who will or should be in and who will have been forced into retirment? just for a bit of insight to see if the aus will still rule the world in year 2007??????Gee lot harder than you might think when you start thinking of the 2007 makeup????have a go please

 

[Mister Wright]

does someone want to have a crack at the makeup of the first test for both teams?
then can someone have a crack at the first test in aus (gabba) IN 2 YEARS TIME who wont and who will or should be in and who will have been forced into retirment? just for a bit of insight to see if the aus will still rule the world in year 2007??????Gee lot harder than you might think when you start thinking of the 2007 makeup????have a go please

You first!

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

First test this series is easy, barring injury.

Australia
Justin Langer
Matthew Hayden
Ricky Ponting (c)
Damien Martyn
Michael Clarke
Simon Katich
Adam Gilchrist (k)
Shane Warne
Jason Gillespie
Michael Kasprowicz
Glenn McGrath

England
Marcus Trescothick
Andrew Strauss
Michael Vaughan (c)
Graham Thorpe
Ian Bell
Andrew Flintoff
Geraint Jones (k)
Ashley Giles (perhaps Batty, if he's still injured)
Simon Jones
Matthew Hoggard
Steve Harmison

In 2007 though, there's way too many variables. How many players will play on to their mid 30s, how many will lose form or be injured or whatever? I'll take a wild stab in the dark though. Keeping in mind that the 2007 series is BEFORE the 2007 World Cup.

Justin Langer
Matthew Hayden
Ricky Ponting (c)
Damien Martyn
Michael Clarke
Simon Katich
Adam Gilchrist (k)
Shane Warne
Jason Gillespie
Brett Lee
Glenn McGrath

I don't think many people will retire between now and then for a few reasons. One is the World Cup, which is an obvious exit point for many players, and also the 5th test in Sydney. Either the end of the World Cup or the end of this 2007 Ashes series will be a point where several Australians (Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath... maybe Martyn, Langer or Hayden) will retire, similar to 1984 when Lillee, Marsh and Greg Chappell all left after the Sydney test.

For England I really have no idea. Obviously Thorpe isn't likely to be there, but with someone like Pietersen you can't say for sure whether or not he will last in the side. I would also expect relatively few changes, however.

Post 2007 WC I can see people like Jaques, Hodge, Watson, Tait and Macgill (or maybe even someone like Cullen) making their way into the Australian team.

edit: also, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see someone like Chris Tremlett make their way into the England side between now and then, given injury or poor form.

 

[marc71178]

The one thing against Tremlett is that the England bowling attack (bar Giles) is actually a young unit still - I don't think any of the seamers are going to be even 30 come the 2007 Ashes.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

The one thing against Tremlett is that the England bowling attack (bar Giles) is actually a young unit still - I don't think any of the seamers are going to be even 30 come the 2007 Ashes.

Yeah, but if Harmison keeps bowling like he did in SA he's going to be under pressure before long. Jones isn't exactly proven at test level yet either. It's a good attack, but it's not as settled as Australia is right now.

 

[Donny]

Before our (Aussies) tour to India, it was generally accepted they outshone us in their batting - Sehwag, Dravid, Sach, Gangs and VVS - and they definitely had a big edge in the spinning dept with Harby, Kumble and Kartik up against Warney who had done poorly in India.

Our pace attack wasn't expected to run through their batting.

Didn't pan out that way. Our pace attack dominated, Warney backed them up well and their much heralded batting failed, again and again.

Add to that, batting performances from our newer players, Katich and Clarke, far outshone the 'superstars' in the opposition.

The difference was Australia lifted when under pressure and India wilted.

Similarly, Pakistan headed to India recently with pundits fully expecting a 0-3 drubbing but, again, didn't pan out that way. Clearly Pakistan had a better team spirit and fought harder under pressure.

I supose it's the old 'a champion team will beat a team of champions' axiom.

I am suggesting England don't really rate on a man to man basis, particularly in the bowling dept.

Opening bowlers: McGrath - ave. 21.2 Gillespie - 24 against Hoggard - 29.6 and Harmo - 28 (much worse over last 12 months)

First change pacemen: Kaspa - 31.1 against Jones - 31.4 and Freddy 33.3

Spinner: Warne - 25.5 against Giles - 37.2

Batting: Strauss, Bell, Jones and Flintoff are rookies against real quality bowling. Trescothick and Thorpe have recent good form and Vaughan last saw the top 20 in the batting ratings over 18 months ago.

Hayden is also looking for form but Langer, Ponting, Martyn and Gilly are in superb touch and Katich is class. Clarke will be tested but, if he can't cut it, Brad Hodge is raring to go and loves English wickets.

But .... the way England has beaten teams (no matter they were 6th., 7th. and 8th. in world rankings) over the recent past suggests a really good team spirit.

So, if we consider these two teams have similarly good team play/spirit, it then goes back to individual talent. Of course, past deeds mean nothing if not repeated so take all the above with that in mind.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

That's true - England are the equivalent of turkeys on Christmas Eve if they don't show they can play as a team in the Twenty20. Similarly, if they can rattle the Oz cage early, then they just might have a chance.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Out of curiosity - are Australia and England going to don the 80's clobber in the Twenty20? That was a top idea by the administration.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I think it's unfair to paint Australia with the colours of being a team of champions as opposed to a champion team. It might have been a bit more fair under Steve Waugh, where they had awesome man-to-man strength but could sometimes get ahead of themselves and not be able to fight back (see India 2001), but Ponting (and Gilchrist) have fostered a bit more of a fighting spirit and team unity that is more similar to Mark Taylor's Australian teams. Unlike someone like India, they have a strong team unity and work well together, both in the bowling where one person seems to stand up whenever the others fail, and in the batting where Australia has suffered many top order collapses only to be rescued by the middle and lower order, and vice-versa. The way Australia came back from first innings defecits in all three Sri Lankan tests in indicative of their fighting qualities.

England clearly possess the same qualities, and will not fold this tour as they have in the past. It will be a great series, and England need to do well in the 20/20 and the ODIs to set the tone for a good series.

 

[Neil Pickup]

That's true - England are the equivalent of turkeys on Christmas Eve if they don't show they can play as a team in the Twenty20. Similarly, if they can rattle the Oz cage early, then they just might have a chance.

I think we've sufficiently shown over the last few months that we're quite capable of playing as a team!

 

[marc71178]

Yeah, but if Harmison keeps bowling like he did in SA he's going to be under pressure before long. Jones isn't exactly proven at test level yet either. It's a good attack, but it's not as settled as Australia is right now.

Harmison's problems in SA were for a number of reasons that are very unlikely to manifest this time round (homesickness, lack of warm-up to get into a rhythm compounded by no time between games to work on anything)

And how long will Jones have to play to be classified a regular?