***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[honestbharani]

R Ponting?

yeah, that was 8 years ago. Like I said, it doesn't happen too often with Australia, at least not as often as it does in India or Pakistan.

 

[Mister Wright]

R Ponting?

Even Ponting was dropped early in his career, then went back and gained more experience and hasn't looked back since.

 

[aussie]

Which is exactly my point. He should be gaining that experience in domestic cricket. I don't see why after 10 years of developing experienced players for our test side which is the reason we have been so successful we sudenly jump up and down at the rushing in of any young player who scores a hundred. It is silly.

geee kyle i want to disagree with you but i cant this point here is perfect lets hope what they are doing with Clarke doesn't backfire......

 

[vic_orthdox]

Even Ponting was dropped early in his career, then went back and gained more experience and hasn't looked back since.

Yup. But I was just referring to when the last time a player that young was picked.

I think Ponting had a fair bit more experience behind himself at the time of his debut anyway, and he wasn't dropped for all that long IIRC.

 

[howardj]

at least not as often as it does in India or Pakistan.

Yeah, if you haven't debuted before you finish Grade 10, then forget it.

 

[aussie]

Vaughan is without doubt the best batsman in the world to watch when in full flight. His hundereds in Australia and is 166 in the 3rd test will always live in my mind until I die. Simply spectacular.

i beg to differ, Lara for me regardless of Vaughan's wonderful elegant technique & yes that 166 was good but i rate the 186 at the SCG a bit higher.....

 

[Mister Wright]

geee kyle i want to disagree with you but i cant this point here is perfect lets hope what they are doing with Clarke doesn't backfire......

And peole think I'm biased around here. That is a big misconception. I like Clarke, and I hope for Australia's sake he is a batsman we can rely on in the future. I don't think it would have harmed his or Australia's future if we had of had a bridge player in the middle order, someone like Love, Hodge or Symonds to play in the side for another 4 or 5 years and they will play at least 2 years after the incumbents retire and that should give the 'new' breed enough time to seelt in.

At the moment what I can see is that just as the current group reitre we have Clarke dropped or his place uncertain in the side. That is not what we want.

I object to Clarke being selected so early, especially considering his first class stats at the time of being selected were ordinary, and certainly not good enough for a regular test batting spot.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I can't see how anyone can fault Clarke this series really. He and Langer have been the only ones who have looked comfortable against the swing and seam from the English quicks, along with Ponting obviously in that big innings, but he too stuggled before that. Clarke's not gone on with it yet aside from the 91, but the fact that he's consistently looking solid and getting starts shows that he can definately play fast bowling in the conditions offered up. His shot selection and temprament will improve with time, and that's why they will stick with him. Everything else is falling into place nicely, and he's definately playing the quicks much better now than he was during the Australian summer and in New Zealand.

 

[vic_orthdox]

yeah, that was 8 years ago. Like I said, it doesn't happen too often with Australia, at least not as often as it does in India or Pakistan.

That's a sign of the importance placed on the Under 19 program in different countries. Not to say that India (and other nations') is wrong, far from it. But the logistics and cost of trying to co-ordinate a strong U/19 program is very difficult and expensive, and as such Australia doesn't really take performances for the junior side into account when making selections for squads or contracts, and the states are much the same.

 

[honestbharani]

I also think it is better to let the players play some domestic cricket. It is a hard grind in most countries and it will toughen them up, I feel.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I don't think it would have harmed his or Australia's future if we had of had a bridge player in the middle order, someone like Love, Hodge or Symonds to play in the side for another 4 or 5 years

Now you're just lying

 

[Mister Wright]

Now you're just lying

Look, I certainly don't rate Hodge, think he's been far too inconsistent for far too long. However, he does deserve his spot on the tour. And it would be a lot better for Australia if he came into the team and failed and then went off into blissful retirement, as it won't hurt Australia in the long term, but Clarke that's another matter.

 

[Mister Wright]

I can't see how anyone can fault Clarke this series really. He and Langer have been the only ones who have looked comfortable against the swing and seam from the English quicks, along with Ponting obviously in that big innings, but he too stuggled before that. Clarke's not gone on with it yet aside from the 91, but the fact that he's consistently looking solid and getting starts shows that he can definately play fast bowling in the conditions offered up. His shot selection and temprament will improve with time, and that's why they will stick with him. Everything else is falling into place nicely, and he's definately playing the quicks much better now than he was during the Australian summer and in New Zealand.

Maybe you could say - because he has got a start he should have gone on with it, and we wouldn't be where we are right now in the series.

 

[Dasa]

I can't see how anyone can fault Clarke this series really. He and Langer have been the only ones who have looked comfortable against the swing and seam from the English quicks, along with Ponting obviously in that big innings, but he too stuggled before that. Clarke's not gone on with it yet aside from the 91, but the fact that he's consistently looking solid and getting starts shows that he can definately play fast bowling in the conditions offered up. His shot selection and temprament will improve with time, and that's why they will stick with him. Everything else is falling into place nicely, and he's definately playing the quicks much better now than he was during the Australian summer and in New Zealand.

I disagree that Clarke has looked comfortable. He's had a few let-offs, and generally hasn't looked comfortable until he's given a chance has been facing Giles. To his credit, he's gone on with it after giving a chance. Well, not quite gone on with it, but moreso than other batsmen.

 

[Shounak]

Look, I certainly don't rate Hodge, think he's been far too inconsistent for far too long. However, he does deserve his spot on the tour. And it would be a lot better for Australia if he came into the team and failed and then went off into blissful retirement, as it won't hurt Australia in the long term, but Clarke that's another matter.

Are you suggesting replace Clarke with Hodge?

The public would never allow it.. I'd prefer you take out a batsman. Or do it on another tour. The ashes is far too important to be chopping known players for potential players. Try it against a Zimbabwe series or something.

 

[Mister Wright]

I disagree that Clarke has looked comfortable. He's had a few let-offs, and generally hasn't looked comfortable until he's given a chance has been facing Giles. To his credit, he's gone on with it after giving a chance. Well, not quite gone on with it, but moreso than other batsmen.

And then got out.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Maybe you could say - because he has got a start he should have gone on with it, and we wouldn't be where we are right now in the series.

That's fine, but why single him out for criticism when he has at least looked capable? Hayden, Katich and Gilchrist have been completely undone, Langer too has consistently got starts but hasn't gone on with it, Martyn looks classy then gets himself out, and Ponting failed until the last test. Given that Clarke has looked the part and has at least been getting starts and made one good score, why is he the one who's place is in danger?

 

[Mister Wright]

Are you suggesting replace Clarke with Hodge?

The public would never allow it.. I'd prefer you take out a batsman. Or do it on another tour. The ashes is far too important to be chopping known players for potential players. Try it against a Zimbabwe series or something.

Not right now, I'm talking about when Clarke was first selected.

 

[Mister Wright]

That's fine, but why single him out for criticism when he has at least looked capable? Hayden, Katich and Gilchrist have been completely undone, Langer too has consistently got starts but hasn't gone on with it, Martyn looks classy then gets himself out, and Ponting failed until the last test. Given that Clarke has looked the part and has at least been getting starts and made one good score, why is he the one who's place is in danger?

Have you read anything I've said?

His place isn't in danger, but could be very soon.

All this discussion relates back to when he was first picked, not now. I'm not talking about the batsman in this series. And personally I don't think Clarke has looked as good as you say he has throughout the series.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I disagree that Clarke has looked comfortable. He's had a few let-offs, and generally hasn't looked comfortable until he's given a chance has been facing Giles. To his credit, he's gone on with it after giving a chance. Well, not quite gone on with it, but moreso than other batsmen.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree there. I've been watching Clarke very closely this series because I wanted to see how he handled three 90+ mph bowlers, two of whom are big movers of the ball, and I think he's looked more at home against them than anyone excluding Langer, and obviously Ponting after he gets set. He also looked very good against Harmison and Flintoff in the ODIs at times. I've actually been quite stunned by it, as I always knew he had talent and was a wonderful player of spin, but didn't expect him to do so well against the sort of bowling he has faced this series.