***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[Tom Halsey]

Vaughanie in.

 

[Slow Love™]

Thank god for Warnie...

 

[Tom Halsey]

First ball - 4.

 

[greg]

What is the evidence for the Old Trafford toss being crucial? The pitch played as well on the last day as it did on the first.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Right, hence it wasn't critical, was it? I'm not suggesting it wasn't Ponting's fault, but to suggest that advantaged Australia as much as England's tosses is ridiculous, because it did the opposite.

Oh right, so because Australia stuff up and lose it's not critical, so if Australia drop catches and get people off no-balls they're not critical because Australia lost (by 2 runs). Utter tosh.

 

[Nuffy]

SP, lets have alook at the last day of the 3rd test for a few gems that ran Eng's way, Martyns decision, Warnes dismissal, want me to go on.

Plenty of Eng commentators have said that Eng have had by far the best of the luck, Boycott said today that the toss was absolutely vital today, and more so after Mcgraths injury.

No one is suggesting that Eng aren't playing good cricket, but they are so with the benefit of bucket loads of good luck to go with it.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

What is the evidence for the Old Trafford toss being crucial? The pitch played as well on the last day as it did on the first.

It was fairly true the whole time, and there was never much seam movement, but there was a lot of turn through the middle of the match, and if Australia had batted Warne would have bowled last.

There's also the runs on the board factor, which is vitally significant on a flat pitch. I'm sure this pitch will be very true later on as well, but it will turn at the end of the match and England will have runs on the board, which is why batting is an advantage. It's not like the Headingley ODI or anything, but it's obviously a much bigger advantage than batting at Lords or bowling at Edgbaston.

 

[Scaly piscine]

My point is simple, Eng have enjoyed a dream run this series, everything possible has gone their way, they have won the tosses that have been vital, key injuries have assisted them and the rub of the green has been all with Eng.

This has been commented on by Hussien, Botham, Lloyd, Nichols and Atherton, numerous times.

You're an idiot (SW reincarnated without the big-headed nostradamus element), welcome to ignore.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Oh right, so because Australia stuff up and lose it's not critical, so if Australia drop catches and get people off no-balls they're not critical because Australia lost (by 2 runs). Utter tosh.

It's not critical because it was an advantage to England. If anything, it was Ponting's error that was critical, as it gave England the crucial first use of the pitch. It doesn't matter who's fault it was, the fact is if you win the toss and the opposition get the best of the conditions, it's not a critical toss.

 

[tassietiger]

All the little things have seemed to go their way, but I wouldn't say the vital things. They've definitely had a tendency to get away with more edges + spoons (e.g. every Trescothick innings), while there has been no such luck for Australia bar its tailenders.

Not making an excuse however, because you do make your own luck.

 

[Nuffy]

So either the numerous Eng players are wrong or you are?

Which is it, birdbrain

 

[Burpey]

It's feisty in here ... lucky wicket for us Nuffy

Hope I wake up in the morning with England not 1-400 ... I fear this may happen (they may lose a few more wickets hopefully)

 

[Tom Halsey]

Right, hence it wasn't critical, was it? I'm not suggesting it wasn't Ponting's fault, but to suggest that advantaged Australia as much as England's tosses is ridiculous, because it did the opposite.

It didn't turn out to be, but that was your own fault, not "bad luck".

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Bleh. Wicket off a no-ball, again.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Great.

 

[Adamc]

Argh. How hard is it to not bowl a no-ball.

 

[tassietiger]

OH MY GOLLY GOSH!!!

Brett!!!

 

[aussie]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sh*t man, when will this end man

 

[Slow Love™]

It's not critical because it was an advantage to England. If anything, it was Ponting's error that was critical, as it gave England the crucial first use of the pitch. It doesn't matter who's fault it was, the fact is if you win the toss and the opposition get the best of the conditions, it's not a critical toss.

I think you might be missing the point. I don't think it's being implied that it was to Australia's advantage that Ponting buggered up at the toss and decided to field (obviously - this would be silly). But the original complaint was about England's luck and things going their way (including the toss). That Ponting made a mistake doesn't change the fact that luck went Australia's way in that instance. Frittering away an advantage at the toss isn't the same as having "bad luck".

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It didn't turn out to be, but that was your own fault, not "bad luck".

I never said anything about bad luck mate, that was nuffy. I said that Australia's two toss wins were not as crucial as England's, because on both occasions England got a significant advantage out of winning it while Australia didn't.