***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[FaaipDeOiad]

Interesting to hear you say that. You've been one of his staunchest advocates so far. I can't really comment, 'cos I've only seen about 40 minutes after lunch & the last hour (so about 2 overs of Dizzy), but I'm guessing with you saying that he's definitely been below par. When does loyalty become intransigence?

I'd say from what little I've seen it's fairly even. The pitch looks a good 'un (a little movement for Lee with the new ball, but nothing excessive) but from what the commentators said (7 chances going down?!?) Oz coulda been well on top. Failure from Fred early doors & I'd say they're in the box seat.

I've been supporting persisting with him for a while longer, because Gillespie has a history of major lapses of form, and then returning to great form in spectacular fashion. However, there's some real issues with his bowling right now, and I'd definately be looking at including Kasprowicz in the next two tests, and giving Gillespie a chance to earn his place back if he can down the line. I don't think he's looked completely shocking all the time on tour, and The Oval for example where he was very good gave hope that he might be finding touch again, but really he's not done enough to maintain his place, and he shouldn't be in the final tests unless he turns it on in the second innings.

I think you're being a bit negative there from an England point of view too. Even if England get 400, that's a decent score. It's a flat wicket, but Australia will need to make 400 when they bat just to be even, so the runs on the board will put England in front. If they bat well tomorrow and manage 500+, they're very much in the box seat to take the test. A lot riding on the first session tomorrow, I think.

 

[howardj]

As a skipper, Ponting has lost me. On top of his bloopers at Edgbaston.....

Why did it take until half an hour after lunch for Warne to get a bowl?

Why did he wait for 1 hour and 45 minutes to elapse in the final session before bringing on yesterday's most potent seamer, Brett Lee?

I just think he was given the captaincy because everyone, throughout his career, said he should be the captain, largely because he was the most outstanding player. Usually, a guy is given the job because he is the best tactician, not the best batsman.

 

[Mister Wright]

Pretty predictable ball by lee to get peitersen... I mean what else does a bowler bowl other than a bouncer after the batsman has forced him to run all the way in and then have to go all the way back and do it again. silly cricket by peitersen.

Nigh****chmen shouldnt be part of cricket as they serve no good purpose

I actually thought at the time it was a ploy by Pietersen to get Lee to dig it in short, like he wanted a bouncer. Looks like it backfired on him.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I just think he was given the captaincy because everyone, throughout his career, said he should be the captain, largely because he was the most outstanding player. Usually, a guy is given the job because he is the best tactician, not the best batsman.

Can anyone else see the same thing happening with Clarke?

 

[Mister Wright]

the only one i'm excusing is Gilchrist of Vaughan the rest should have been taken

Actually, he should have left it for Warne, Gilchrist was well below par today, up there with his worst performances.

 

[howardj]

Can anyone else see the same thing happening with Clarke?

Bingo. That's what I was thinking the other night. One of the problems, as I see it, is that because these potential captains (Clarke etc, and Ponting a few years ago) no longer get to play for their State sides, then they have no opportunity to gain much captaincy experience at the FC level. Accordingly, there's not much opportunity to assess them.

 

[Top_Cat]

I just think he was given the captaincy because everyone, throughout his career, said he should be the captain, largely because he was the most outstanding player. Usually, a guy is given the job because he is the best tactician, not the best batsman.

Not in Australia. Have a look at our previous captains back to the 70's; the best or top two batsman in the side at the time of appointment. Another example of why the best tactician isn't always picked; Steve Waugh, based on technical nous alone, should never have been made captain above Shane Warne.

 

[Mister Wright]

Not in Australia. Have a look at our previous captains back to the 70's; the best or top two batsman in the side at the time of appointment. Another example of why the best tactician isn't always picked; Steve Waugh, based on technical nous alone, should never have been made captain above Shane Warne.

Shane Warne shot himself in the foot with his off field antics. I've always said he would be the best captain of an Australian side.

 

[Top_Cat]

Bingo. That's what I was thinking the other night. One of the problems, as I see it, is that because these potential captains (Clarke etc, and Ponting a few years ago) no longer get to play for their State sides, then they have no opportunity to gain much captaincy experience at the FC level. Accordingly, there's not much opportunity to assess them.

That's exactly what will happen. Clarke has been touted as a future captain for some time and before he got int he side, we were constantly hearing about how he captained the U/19's side. Trust me; he's our next captain.

 

[Mister Wright]

That's exactly what will happen. Clarke has been touted as a future captain for some time and before he got int he side, we were constantly hearing about how he captained the U/19's side. Trust me; he's our next captain.

That's if he survives in the team.

 

[Top_Cat]

Shane Warne shot himself in the foot with his off field antics. I've always said he would be the best captain of an Australian side.

To this day, I remember when he took over the captaincy for short periods in ODI's against South Africa in 1998; Australia were struggling against SA that shole series and in a few games, SA were flying to a win. Steve Waugh went off the field for a few overs and in that time, Warnie would be captain. Suddenly, you'd feel the tension in the game change because of a bowling/field change and even though SA were well on the way to wins in those games and there was no way they could lose, suddenly they'd lose a wicket and be vulnerable, even if they only had to score at 3-per-over. Then Steve Waugh would come back on and normal service (i.e. a loss) would resume.

 

[Mister Wright]

To this day, I remember when he took over the captaincy for short periods in ODI's against South Africa in 1998; Australia were struggling against SA that shole series and in a few games, SA were flying to a win. Steve Waugh went off the field for a few overs and in that time, Warnie would be captain. Suddenly, you'd feel the tension in the game change because of a bowling/field change and even though SA were well on the way to wins in those games and there was no way they could lose, suddenly they'd lose a wicket and be vulnerable, even if they only had to score at 3-per-over. Then Steve Waugh would come back on and normal service (i.e. a loss) would resume.

Yeah, also when Steve Waugh was injured in that clash with Gillespie Australia and had to go off, Warne was captain and almost immediately made an impact.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

There's no doubt in my mind either that Shane Warne has one of the best tactical cricket brains anywhere. You can see it in his bowling, as well as in his leadership when he gets the opportunity.

 

[Macka]

Can someone please tell me why Gillespie is playing? Surely MacGill deserves a game. He couldn't do much worse. Not that I'm complaining too much, being an England supporter and all.

 

[Top_Cat]

Can someone please tell me why Gillespie is playing? Surely MacGill deserves a game. He couldn't do much worse. Not that I'm complaining too much, being an England supporter and all.

Well shut up then!

 

[Mister Wright]

Can someone please tell me why Gillespie is playing? Surely MacGill deserves a game. He couldn't do much worse. Not that I'm complaining too much, being an England supporter and all.

Gillespie is being rewarded for the all the hard effort he has put in coming back from injuries and the tireless efforts he put in while McGrath was injured and he led the attack. He has been considered an automatic selection for so long now, however that view must be changed. This isn't just a poor patch of form, he is bowling terrible - there is something wrong.

 

[Top_Cat]

He has been considered an automatic selection for so long now, however that view must be changed. This isn't just a poor patch of form, he is bowling terrible - there is something wrong.

Yes exactly. You don't just lose the ability to be a bowler overnight; something is seriously wrong and it must be personal because he seems to be moving well enough.

 

[social]

As I said earlier, Ponting's inflexibility is what really irks me.

To some extent it's understandable as Aus have been no. 1 for a long time by consistently backing their game plan/structure.

However, their results/quality of players have masked weaknesses in this approach.

For example, if Warne had done his usual yesterday and taken 5 - for, Ponting's mistakes would have been somewhat camouflaged.

As it stands, Ponting's desicion to let Gillespie bowl and bowl as a sign of faith, cost Aus plenty and unnecessarily so.

 

[Mister Wright]

As I said earlier, Ponting's inflexibility is what really irks me.

To some extent it's understandable as Aus have been no. 1 for a long time by consistently backing their game plan/structure.

However, their results/quality of players have masked weaknesses in this approach.

For example, if Warne had done his usual yesterday and taken 5 - for, Ponting's mistakes would have been somewhat camouflaged.

As it stands, Ponting's desicion to let Gillespie bowl and bowl as a sign of faith, cost Aus plenty and unnecessarily so.

It just makes you wonder how good captains Taylor and Waugh were, whenever Australia were in trouble, "Wanre at one end, McGrath at the other." IMO Border is Australia's best ever captain.

I disagree on you point on Gillespie though. He had to be bowled. He's been picked as a bowler, and it is hard to rotate three bowlers for the entire innings. It is not the captain's fault that the selectors have picked the wrong bowler.

 

[Macka]

Gillespie is being rewarded for the all the hard effort he has put in coming back from injuries and the tireless efforts he put in while McGrath was injured and he led the attack. He has been considered an automatic selection for so long now, however that view must be changed. This isn't just a poor patch of form, he is bowling terrible - there is something wrong.

Gillespie is usually a very good bowler, no doubt about that. However, he is bowling extremely poorly and is obviously under a lot of pressure. With the series in the balance, I would have thought MacGill would get a look in. I'm not too sure when he was last bowling in a game, but, surely, he would be no worse than Gillespie is at the moment.