*Official* Australia in decline thread

[iamdavid]

Christopher Martin?

He said 'genuine quick'

 

[tooextracool]

we were the first team to push aussie ina test match series for nearly a decade, we showed the world how it can be done. now that were alot better than we were in 2000, wehn we go there in december and they come here in february we will give them 2 series loses

perhaps you missed australias tour of india in 98, and the ashes in 97 or even australias tour of SL in 99

 

[tooextracool]

Yeah, it's not like we're beating Australia 3-2 and all the other countries in the world 5-0 just because they're not Australia.

India has weak games and strong games against almost every other country playing at the moment, and neither the weak nor the strong have appeared consistently.

As Neil Pickup pointed out, dethronement involves consistently beating a side, and every other team playing out there. That is what Australia is doing. The next team to do just that is the team that dethrones Australia - not the team that beats Australia in 1 or 2 seria.

well said!

 

[tooextracool]

I'm not quite going so far as to say that the XI which will finallly clinch the Ashes at the MCG will be Strauss, Vaughan, Collingwood, Pietersen, Joyce, Flintoff, G Jones, Keedy, S Jones, Harmison, Mahmood, but remember, you heard it here first.

finally someone who had the intelligence to keep trescothick out...if only you were a selector(note-no sarcasm).
from what ive seen from s.jones so far, i dont think hes capable of pulling off anything more than a ed giddins, but then thats what we thought about harmison. im surprised that theres no shafayat and ian bell though

 

[tooextracool]

VERY LIKELY
sa
ind
nz (the dark horses!)

DOUBT IT, BUT U NEVER KNOW!!
pak
eng
wi

HAHAHAHA
zim
ban

why is england in the same category as the WI and pakistan?if SA is up there in the primary group then so should england.

 

[SJS]

By beating Australia, if they do that, India will at best retain the Border Gavaskar Trophy.

Australia have been at the Apex for too long and too convincingly to be considered dethroned by a single series loss. It will have to be a sustained performance vis-a-vis Australia OR a massive crushing defeat of them, that will entitle any other side to claim to be replace them at the top where they are.

Now that will take some doing and it doesnt look like its going to happen tomorrow.

What is going to happen, I think, is that the gap beteween Australia and India could reduce if India can sustain their present form over the next year or so.

 

[marc71178]

Same thing goes for England Marc

Yes, but have I ever claimed England are going to dethrone them?

 

[a massive zebra]

By beating Australia, if they do that, India will at best retain the Border Gavaskar Trophy.

Australia have been at the Apex for too long and too convincingly to be considered dethroned by a single series loss. It will have to be a sustained performance vis-a-vis Australia OR a massive crushing defeat of them, that will entitle any other side to claim to be replace them at the top where they are.

Now that will take some doing and it doesnt look like its going to happen tomorrow.

What is going to happen, I think, is that the gap beteween Australia and India could reduce if India can sustain their present form over the next year or so.

Well Australia have only won 1 of the last 4 series between the two sides, while India have won 2, so its not really a 'single series loss.' India have had the better of Australia for a number of years, so if the 'gap between Australia and India could reduce' then it would reduce in Australia's favour. Australia might do better than India against other teams, but if they consistently struggle against the subcontinentals it seems foolish to rate them higher.

 

[SJS]

Well Australia have only won 1 of the last 4 series between the two sides, while India have won 2, so its not really a 'single series loss.' India have had the better of Australia for a number of years, so if the 'gap between Australia and India could reduce' then it would reduce in Australia's favour. Australia might do better than India against other teams, but if they consistently struggle against the subcontinentals it seems foolish to rate them higher.

You are right about their head to head but I think we are discussing Australia's ranking as number one amongst all countries so other games too have to be taken into account. It is here that India will need to show more consistency.

 

[chris.hinton]

once the older aussie players retire (Lehmann, Hayden, Mc grath and Warne) then it will change

 

[SJS]

once the older aussie players retire (Lehmann, Hayden, Mc grath and Warne) then it will change

Yes thats possible. But I think it will depend more on India's positive performance across the board more than Australia's negative ones.

I am worried about Kumble. He is coming to an end. Harbhajan, before he got injured seemed to have lost his bite with over use of the 'doosra' like Saqlain and there is no other spinner in sight. This is not a good sign.

 

[badgerhair]

finally someone who had the intelligence to keep trescothick out...if only you were a selector(note-no sarcasm).
from what ive seen from s.jones so far, i dont think hes capable of pulling off anything more than a ed giddins, but then thats what we thought about harmison. im surprised that theres no shafayat and ian bell though

Bell and Shafayat may be challenging for places by then, as Collingwood is now, but unfortunately you can only pick three players to bat at 3-5.

I fail, though, to see how Harmison or Jones could possibly be compared to Ed Giddins. Giddins has always been a swing bowler whose only real speed went up his nose, while Harmison and Jones are genuinely quick. If you want to pick role models for useless fast bowlers, you need to draw on the examples of Alan Ward or Syd Lawrence.

We'll have a much better idea about Jones by the end of the summer. Right now, he's not played enough to see any progress.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[shankar]

Yes thats possible. But I think it will depend more on India's positive performance across the board more than Australia's negative ones.

I am worried about Kumble. He is coming to an end. Harbhajan, before he got injured seemed to have lost his bite with over use of the 'doosra' like Saqlain and there is no other spinner in sight. This is not a good sign.

For a long everyone was criticizing Kumble for not performing outside India. He's always said he didnt have a big score to bowl with. The moment the Indian batting has started to click he's taken 39 wickets in 7 matches abroad. It's a pity the Indian batting couldnt do it when he was at his peak.
Abt. Bhajji, I think he looked listless because he was not able to bowl the 'doosra' due to his finger injury. It'll be crucial to see if he can bowl it effectively after he recovers.
Also Murali karthik can be that spinner we are looking for if the selectors handle him well.

 

[anzac]

I can't see any of the current squads being able to do it......while this current AUS team may not be as good on paper as the one with both Waughs (IMO), any team that can white wash SRL in their own back yard is not short of talent.......

many teams are showing upcoming talent with youth on their side, but IMO this alone will not be enough to dethrone AUS - much will depend on the remainder of the team & how consistantly well they play together & their game plan.....as NZ has shown that a team without super stars can do well if they play together as a unit.............

but more than that we are talking about a machine that works together very very well - currently better than any of their counterparts..........

furthermore they are currently the ONLY team capable of sustaining their version of the batting attack to advance the game, which has managed to give their depleted bowling attack enough time to do the job - and it's now become their natural game throughout their domestic cricket........

from memory their recent losses in Test cricket have come when their 4 man primary bowling attack has been reduced to 3 due to injury during a match, or when they have had a virtual 'A' team bowling attack again due to injuries.........

to beat AUS consistantly teams will have to be able to defeat their tactic to advance the game - particularly when AUS wins the toss and bats 1st.....IMO too many people get distracted by their bowling talent & think the results will change as their current players retire - but IMO it is their batting that has to be defeated - not only the individual player talent, but moreso their tactics...........

as I said at the top - no one has been able to show enough to suggest that they are going to be able to do this in a series - let alone consistantly enough to dethrone - we'll have to wait until the current squads start to break up across the board to see what lessons have been learned by whom.......

& first of all someone has to get past RSA b4 they can think of challenging AUS!!!!!

 

[tooextracool]

I can't see any of the current squads being able to do it......while this current AUS team may not be as good on paper as the one with both Waughs (IMO), any team that can white wash SRL in their own back yard is not short of talent.......

not so much talent as it is preparation,coaching,fitness,teamwork and fielding. nay this australian side overperforms, there are other teams out there just as talented with the bat but not quite delivering the goods.

first of all someone has to get past RSA b4 they can think of challenging AUS!!!!!

because SA is that good?pakistan just beat them for gods sakes.

 

[Sanz]

^ And your point is ?? South Africa lost one TEST to Pakistan, drew the second test. Won the ODI series. South Africa is clearly the second Best ODI & Test Side and any country willing to dethrone Australia needs to get past SA.

 

[Sanz]

For a long everyone was criticizing Kumble for not performing outside India. He's always said he didnt have a big score to bowl with. The moment the Indian batting has started to click he's taken 39 wickets in 7 matches abroad. It's a pity the Indian batting couldnt do it when he was at his peak.
Abt. Bhajji, I think he looked listless because he was not able to bowl the 'doosra' due to his finger injury. It'll be crucial to see if he can bowl it effectively after he recovers.
Also Murali karthik can be that spinner we are looking for if the selectors handle him well.

The problem with Kumble is that he needs 600 runs to perform (outside India) and that is enough fact for me to say that he is anot a match winner outside India. Bhajji & Murali Karthik are not in the same class even on those friendly pitches.

 

[cbuts]

perhaps you missed australias tour of india in 98, and the ashes in 97 or even australias tour of SL in 99

sorry i did mean at home.

 

[age_master]

not so much talent as it is nay this australian side overperforms, there are other teams out there just as talented with the bat but not quite delivering the goods.

like??? and with the ball??? or in the field??? the Aussie team doesn't overperform, they just perform to their best more oftren and more consistantly than the rest

 

[ash chaulk]

Werd up fellas... i reckon the only team to come close to beating Australia in the next 5yrs would have to be New Zealand they just have so much potential and with Stephen Fleming who i think is the best captain in the world ATM they will only win more games. Fleming just seems so smart he has a plan for everythink. I believe yes India are good but they only have batsmen where are the bowlers??? they leave there arm on there home ground but when they come away they arnt too flash at all.. I also think english crickets getting better all the time and the Windies need to find the next lara, ambrose, walsh, nagamootoo(lol just love the name) quick because there team looks to have gaps. cant be ****ed writing anymore