*Official* Australia in decline thread

[marc71178]

No One in the future has any chance of dethroning Australia. They have just too much talent and their 'A' team is capable of beating most teams.

I wouldn't say it is to be honest.

 

[marc71178]

Arguably India have already dethroned them.

India's only problem is that they seem to come unstuck more against the other 8 sides...

 

[Neil Pickup]

Fair point.



Well its 3-2 to India, not exactly a whitewash, but certainly close to dethronement IMO.




Australia have only beaten India twice in seven matches and failed to win a series this millenium so they have been given more than a run for their money.

You don't dethrone a team by beating them (viz Man Utd and Arsenal - the head to head is 1-0 Manure). You dethrone a side by consistently outperforming them home and away.

India haven't won outside the subcontinent in...

 

[Gaijin-san]

I say Australia will dethrone themselves, if and when it happens.

The current team won't be dethroned by anybody. Maybe not even the next generation, who knows? But one of these days a team will just not be good enough and fall from the top.

If you're gonna die, better do it yourself then let someone get pride out of it!

 

[Langeveldt]

I say Australia will dethrone themselves, if and when it happens.

The current team won't be dethroned by anybody. Maybe not even the next generation, who knows? But one of these days a team will just not be good enough and fall from the top.

If you're gonna die, better do it yourself then let someone get pride out of it!

how do you mean?? Someones got to beat them!!!!

 

[Langeveldt]

By the way. I think this thread is a bit pointless...

Australia were already dethroned by the South Africans, last year....

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

Arguably India have already dethroned them.QUOTE]



Australia are the best ODI side by a country mile & even their test side (with injuries/suspensions affecting the side in 2003) is comfortably the best.

 

[badgerhair]

For what it's worth, I am on record after the end of the 2001 Ashes series as saying that the next side to win a 3-or-more-match Test series against Australia would be England, possibly in 2005, but more likely in 2006-7. I still stand by that prediction, although India's improvement over the last two years has been such as to make this autumn's series quite a threat to the accuracy of my soothsaying.

I'm not quite going so far as to say that the XI which will finallly clinch the Ashes at the MCG will be Strauss, Vaughan, Collingwood, Pietersen, Joyce, Flintoff, G Jones, Keedy, S Jones, Harmison, Mahmood, but remember, you heard it here first.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Neil Pickup]

For what it's worth, I am on record after the end of the 2001 Ashes series as saying that the next side to win a 3-or-more-match Test series against Australia would be England, possibly in 2005, but more likely in 2006-7. I still stand by that prediction, although India's improvement over the last two years has been such as to make this autumn's series quite a threat to the accuracy of my soothsaying.

I'm not quite going so far as to say that the XI which will finallly clinch the Ashes at the MCG will be Strauss, Vaughan, Collingwood, Pietersen, Joyce, Flintoff, G Jones, Keedy, S Jones, Harmison, Mahmood, but remember, you heard it here first.

Cheers,

Mike

That's a long tail... hope Lee's bowling

 

[krkode]

India's only problem is that they seem to come unstuck more against the other 8 sides...

Yeah, it's not like we're beating Australia 3-2 and all the other countries in the world 5-0 just because they're not Australia.

India has weak games and strong games against almost every other country playing at the moment, and neither the weak nor the strong have appeared consistently.

As Neil Pickup pointed out, dethronement involves consistently beating a side, and every other team playing out there. That is what Australia is doing. The next team to do just that is the team that dethrones Australia - not the team that beats Australia in 1 or 2 seria.

 

[Neil Pickup]

how do you mean?? Someones got to beat them!!!!

As in.. it won't be a side that beats the current generation of Aussies, it'll be a fact that they pass their prime(s) and aren't replaced.

Very much like McLaren dethroned themselves after Honda left F1 in 1991.

 

[Tim]

Not many people are aware of the talent that NZ is pooling..although obviously until they perform at international level, they're just another player.

Bowling wise..there are a few concerns there. Ian Butler is ok, but he needs to start progressing I think. Bruce Martin is an up & coming spinner & James Franklin has always been there or there abouts and I think 2 years in domestic cricket has done him good after being dropped by NZ.

Batting is alot different & I think NZ could well be very strong in this area in the next few years.
If you take a look at the averages of Peter Fulton, Ross Taylor, Rob Nicol, Michael Papps, Tim McIntosh etc...they've all got very good stats for batting on wickets that are honestly very poor & almost substandard for FC cricket.

Right now, NZ are probably the most mentally tough enough to take on Australia..but they probably need perhaps 1 more world class batsman & perhaps another genuine quick to partner Shane Bond when fit.

 

[cbuts]

we were the first team to push aussie ina test match series for nearly a decade, we showed the world how it can be done. now that were alot better than we were in 2000, wehn we go there in december and they come here in february we will give them 2 series loses

without doubt it is the strongest that nz cricket has ever been. on the tour to england there aer 3-4 players who were extremly unlucky to miss out, and about another 8 players, who in the past whould of been good enough to tour with the team.

 

[badgerhair]

As in.. it won't be a side that beats the current generation of Aussies, it'll be a fact that they pass their prime(s) and aren't replaced.

Can you point to any transition of cricket supremacy which has not come about that way?

Yorkshire took over as the team of the 60s having played second fiddle to Surrey during the 50s because their next generation was better than Surrey's. Australia took over from WI as Test cricket's near-invincibles because their next generation was far better fitted for it than were WI (and now RSA). NSW have basically failed to renew and are nothing like the team which could dominate the Shield a decade ago.

The 2001 Australians included three players who were already assured of places in the pantheon of all-time greats in Warne, SWaugh and McGrath, and 2 or 3 more potentially in Ponting, Hayden and Gilchrist. I yield to no-one in my admiration of that side.

You're not going to beat Australia until those great players depart , though there is little indication that their replacements even have the potential to reach that standard, unless you can breed a team of similar greatness. And I'm sorry to say that India have not reached anything like that standard on the bowling front. Their batting line-up is now in my view slightly superior to Australia's, but their bowling is one down - their best quick struggles to amtch the second-best Australian, and so on. My prediction about England being more likely to beat them is based on an estimate fo where the bowlers will be in a year or two's time - and I genuinely think England could have a world-beating combo in about 2006.

It must be time for another long-range prediction, so here goes: when we come to 2009 or so, I think the top team in the world is going to be a contest between Pakistan, West Indies and England. Those three countries seem to me to have the best bunches of young players who ought to be at the tops of their games about then.

Though I'd have to concede that the dominance of the present Australia means that it is not very easy to discern how good the next generation are. It will therefore be very interesting to see how they go in county cricket, because they will be competing pretty directly with the guys who are going to play against them in Tests in five or six years' time. (Whatever failings county cricket has, at least it offers some yardstick for up-and-comers by virtue of having players from everywhere, a facility to the student of cricket form which only South Africa offers in the southern hemisphere.)

Cheers,

Mike

 

[marc71178]

Right now, NZ are probably the most mentally tough enough to take on Australia..but they probably need perhaps 1 more world class batsman & perhaps another genuine quick to partner Shane Bond when fit.

Even allowing for the Fleming factor NZ more than just that to challenge Australia in Tests (where Bond has not been as big a success as in ODIs) and there's no genuine world class batsman in the side anyway!

 

[Raj123]

Brett Lee:

"Ashes has some tradition, history. However, India has been playing really well for the last two years under Sourav Ganguly. I feel they are perhaps closest (to us). So, in the present context this series can be rated as the unofficial world championship,"

http://in.rediff.com/cricket/2004/may/03lee.htm

 

[Tim]

Same thing goes for England Marc, so therefore we've narrowed it down to India & South Africa if you go by how many world class batsmen are in the team.

 

[Craig]

Right now, NZ are probably the most mentally tough enough to take on Australia..but they probably need perhaps 1 more world class batsman & perhaps another genuine quick to partner Shane Bond when fit.

Christopher Martin?

 

[Craig]

Their batting is just too weak.

You may have a point with Marcus Trescothick. Although I dont think Vaughan to Thorpe arent that bad.

Vaughan had a golden 2002, and showed signs of it in 2003, but made some starts and through it away. 2004 is a case of wait and see.

 

[iamdavid]

I still give it 5 years minimum.
We have the best talent indentification & coachin systems & the game is still very big out here so I reckon we will consistently produce top players.

Talk of India having dethroned Australia already is a little silly , lets just remember this team hasnt won a series outside the subcontinents in over 15 years....winning against Pakistan is great.....but the conditions there are nearly identical to home.
India are a developing side & certainly one to look out for down the track.....but at the moment they are in a closely fought 3 way battle for the number 3 position.

I think short term England could be a force......but long term I dont think the game has a huge fanbase among the younger generation in England......and no matter how much cash the ECB wanna throw around if the kids arent interested then the game will struggle for cash & the talented youngsters wont come through at any rate of knots.