**Official** Asia Cup 2004 Thread

[Swervy]

On the paper it looks like so, but Pakistan proove us as a better one...
And the Pakistani Team is also very young... (yasir, shoaib malik, mohammed sami etc.)
And most of the Indians are very old like Sehwag, Ganguly Tendulkar and so on....
I mean India has the more experienced team, which the Pakistani Team also had, but the Stars , the old Stars were sorted out after the terrible world cup...
For example Waqar Younis...He could still play for the Pakistani team , if the PCB had picked him for the Pak vs India Series in Pakistan...
But the PCB didnt and so he ended his careere...which is very very sad....

Sehwag..very old?????

 

[marc71178]

I don't feel sorry for Pakistan because in hindsight they were pretty bad in this tournament. They crashed to 122 all out and were badly beaten by Sril Lanka. India didn't crash to any such heavy defeat.

Sorry, but what was the score on Sunday again?

 

[marc71178]

the truth is india were lucky becuase of the poor bonus point system.It is stupid becuase it is 60 run within the total and it should be 30 or 40.I dont know why the losing team can gain a bonus point from losing.

Complaints after the event are invalid IMO.

Both sides knew the rules before the game.

 

[marc71178]

A point to note is that although the Srilankan bowling was weakened by losing Vaas and Murali, that meant they were able to play 7 batsmen and it was because of the 7th batsman (Dilshan) that SL got close to the target.

And it's because of the 7th batsman that the bowling was weaker so they chased a higher target...

 

[marc71178]

The fact is, people will find excuses, no matter what system we use.

What about result between the 2 nations being the decider?

It happens in Football ahead of goal difference, and nobody complains then.

 

[marc71178]

or how they played it safe and did not allow the bonus point to pak thus controlling their own destiny for the next game

Played it safe?

They got the bonus point in the final over, having given up hope of winning ages before.

That to me demonstrated a flaw in the bonus point system (that had been exposed before in a VB series)

 

[marc71178]

I really dont think it is a fact that pakistan are better than India..in fact I would say India on the whole are a better team, its just Pakistan did play better the other day

For me they're very closely matched in ODI (as are a lot of sides at the moment - all bar Aus, Zim and Ban in fact)

 

[shankar]

And it's because of the 7th batsman that the bowling was weaker so they chased a higher target...

well OBVIOUSLY!!! You're just restating what I've said.

 

[shankar]

What about result between the 2 nations being the decider?

It happens in Football ahead of goal difference, and nobody complains then.

If India and Pak had ended up with the same points the result of the match between the two would have been the decider.

 

[Deja moo]

Simple really....

There were basically 3 teams vying for 2 spots in the final ( Bong was always going to be beaten by all 3 teams ) .

Ind , Pak , SL won one game and lost one amongst each other .

But Pak lost heavily in one of those games , while Ind and SL did not lose heavily in any game . Hence Ind and SL make it to the final.

As for SL missing Murali and Vaas , India missed VVS and Zaheer vs Pak too .No one can argue that Vaas and Murali will be missed more than VVS or Zaheer . VVS has been an excellent performer for India in ODIs as has Murali for SL. And yes , Zaheer has a better bowling average than Vaas .


All in all , a fair result . Pakistan had their chance to deny India the Bonus point , but blew it ( what can one say? Inzy failed to set proper fields , and seeing that Moin failed to hit the stumps even once from 2 tries from 5 feet away, they deserved to give away the bonus point.)

Some are cribbing about the losing team gaining a point .Fair enough . But if you followed a system of just denying the winners a bonus point instead of giving it to the loser , the table would still see SL and Ind at the top in this scenario .Pakistan beating India means squat since they end up 1 point below India in the table anyway.

 

[maxpower]

Played it safe?

They got the bonus point in the final over, having given up hope of winning ages before.

That to me demonstrated a flaw in the bonus point system (that had been exposed before in a VB series)

Well it is safe to go after bonus point denial to pak, what does it matter when they got the target, to me it seems like IND management must have read the rules of tournament and used it wisely. IN any major tournament someone is gonna whine about the system, usually the loosers, IND has been in that boat many times.

 

[Jono]

Simple really....

There were basically 3 teams vying for 2 spots in the final ( Bong was always going to be beaten by all 3 teams ) .

Ind , Pak , SL won one game and lost one amongst each other .

But Pak lost heavily in one of those games , while Ind and SL did not lose heavily in any game . Hence Ind and SL make it to the final.

As for SL missing Murali and Vaas , India missed VVS and Zaheer vs Pak too .No one can argue that Vaas and Murali will be missed more than VVS or Zaheer . VVS has been an excellent performer for India in ODIs as has Murali for SL. And yes , Zaheer has a better bowling average than Vaas .


All in all , a fair result . Pakistan had their chance to deny India the Bonus point , but blew it ( what can one say? Inzy failed to set proper fields , and seeing that Moin failed to hit the stumps even once from 2 tries from 5 feet away, they deserved to give away the bonus point.)

Some are cribbing about the losing team gaining a point .Fair enough . But if you followed a system of just denying the winners a bonus point instead of giving it to the loser , the table would still see SL and Ind at the top in this scenario .Pakistan beating India means squat since they end up 1 point below India in the table anyway.

I agree with everything you said other than Zaheer Kahn being better than Vaas, since that's what you hinted. Vaas > Zaheer any day of the week. However your primary point is correct.

As an Indian fan, I must say that I hope the Indian fans on this board have realised how ridiculous complaining after a loss is. Remember the VB Series and when many Indians were complaining about the DL method after India lost to Australia? That was stupid, and so is the complaining going on in this thread.

The rules were known, and if any one had a problem with it they would of said something much before the tournament, and much before the bonus point was ever introduced into any tournament.

 

[Swervy]

Simple really....

There were basically 3 teams vying for 2 spots in the final ( Bong was always going to be beaten by all 3 teams ) .

Ind , Pak , SL won one game and lost one amongst each other .

But Pak lost heavily in one of those games , while Ind and SL did not lose heavily in any game . Hence Ind and SL make it to the final.

As for SL missing Murali and Vaas , India missed VVS and Zaheer vs Pak too .No one can argue that Vaas and Murali will be missed more than VVS or Zaheer . VVS has been an excellent performer for India in ODIs as has Murali for SL. And yes , Zaheer has a better bowling average than Vaas .


All in all , a fair result . Pakistan had their chance to deny India the Bonus point , but blew it ( what can one say? Inzy failed to set proper fields , and seeing that Moin failed to hit the stumps even once from 2 tries from 5 feet away, they deserved to give away the bonus point.)

Some are cribbing about the losing team gaining a point .Fair enough . But if you followed a system of just denying the winners a bonus point instead of giving it to the loser , the table would still see SL and Ind at the top in this scenario .Pakistan beating India means squat since they end up 1 point below India in the table anyway.

its all this verying dgrees of defeat that bothers me...the purpose of the game is to score more runs than the opposition...a defeat is a defeat (in my eyes.....) It doesnt matter if you lose by 300 runs or lose by 1 run, you have still failed in your objective of scoring more than the opposition...its as simple as that for me.

Now this bonus point think is basically saying that there is effectivly another result in the game, the defeat (but its ok coz it was a close defeat) with bonus points etc...it just doesnt make sense to me.....cricket is a competitive sport,hence the goal is to win the game, not to just lose by a bit.

But yeak Pakistan knew the rules before hand so cant complain....

Anyway, since when has a 59run defeat in a 50 over game been close

 

[marc71178]

But Pak lost heavily in one of those games , while Ind and SL did not lose heavily in any game .

Erm, Sunday was a heavy loss, regardless of a bonus point or not.

 

[imranrabb]

yeah 59 runs in a pak india game is regarded as a heavy loss.

 

[Swervy]

http://uk.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/JUL/009227_ASIA2004_28JUL2004.html

 

[RealPk]

I think the point, where the Pakistani Fans and the others are unhappy with is that Pakistan beat India very heavy, but the flawed bonus point system gave them a point, which was very unfair for the Pakistanis since the Indians were just one run over the required bonus point system.. The Pakistani performed also very well and a team like this, which have so much potential and is so competitive have to stay in the final.... The heavy lost against Sri Lanka shouldnt matter so much if they win the other two games...
In soccer you have chances till the end if u just lose one match of three to come in the next round..
And if u are objective and forget the bonus point u will also think that Pakistan have to stay in the final, since India just played against a weakened Sri Lankan team who didnt gave 100 % ....After the injury of Zoysa Attapatu didnt wanted to bring Mahroof back, because he could be injured... On his place it comes a bowler who didnt bowled any time of this game..Jayantha...And he gave the important 19 runs to the Indians , which brought them to the total of 271... Mahroof wouldnt let them score so many runs since he bowled in his 8 previous overs very good and just gave 37 runs away...Jayantha also didnt took a wicket , which maybe Mahroof would take..
So i think the Indians should be very happy to stay in thi final , while the merit should be to go home for them...

And this point makes the peoples the win over India very very unhappy...although a win over India mean everyone a lot....

And if u remember at the series of Pakistan vs India were it was everytime very close...there was no result where one team of this twoes won with a so big difference total....


All in all the pakistani fans should be very happy with this Pakistani team ecspecially with the performance against India... And in the future something like that will not happen again...inshallah..
We could be very optimistic with our situation since there are some tournament in this year to play...
And one year later, im sure, we will see a much more prooved Pakistani team with the new coach Bob Woolmer...

To be fair we should now look at the last game of our team, nervertheless they are out of the tournament, but real Pakistani fans also look the last game..
Yesterday i was very dissapointed but now i feel much better..
If Pakistan played yesterday i wouldnt watch this match but now i think watching the last game shouldnt cause...In spite of the fact that the Pakistanis will not give everything, but watching the Pakistanis could everytime be exciting..


As i said some posts before, that if India win against Sri Lanka they will also get the Asia Cup....My opinion hasnt yet changed...

 

[GermanShepherd]

And the Pakistani Team is also very young... (yasir, shoaib malik, mohammed sami etc.)
And most of the Indians are very old like Sehwag, Ganguly Tendulkar and so on....

The average age of the Indian 11 that played on Sunday was approximately 26.
And the average age of the Pakistani 11 in that match was approximately 27.

 

[RealPk]

The average age of the Indian 11 that played on Sunday was approximately 26.
And the average age of the Pakistani 11 in that match was approximately 27.

I mean the PCB gives now more reponsibility to the young players like Yasir, Farhat and Nazir who should open for the Pakistani Team...
I think Taufiq Umar and Yasir Hameed could be a great solution....
In the bowling they have also Danish Kaneria and Mohammed Sami, who will certainly more playing in the future...
Then there is also a Umar Gul...
I think at most the future of the Pakistani Cricket isnt in danger and there are some player who also already could be a good replacement for batsmen like Youhana, Younis Khan, Abdul Razzaq and so on...
Something like that i havent seen by the Indians...Maybe im wrong but i ve only seen one talented guy who is available to thrash the etablished player like Zaheer Khan, Anil Kumble and so on from their mountain...
In the Pakistani cricket ive seen much more player who have already shown more in the first team than by the Indians...
But maybe im wrong...

 

[Arjun]

Times of India's mockery

The Mumbai edition of the Times of India is making a mockery of the Asia Cup. A short while ago, they published an article on player numbers where a numerologist said that he would be surprised if the Indians won the last match because they tinker around far too much with numbers. He thinks they should abandon some numbers (Tendulkar should abandon the 10, for Russian Roulette, or inconsistency, but he is a class player, how can a number change his fortunes? And what about Roberto Baggio? And Maradona?) and adopt new ones. Should honest cricket fans believe this group?

Then that farcical poll "Has marriage affected Sehwag's performance adversely?" Give me a break!