*Official* Ashes Series Thread

[Rik]

Originally posted by marc71178
I'm a realist.

The bloke has Surrey and Yorkshire connections, which doesn't seem to be a hindrance to a career for England - how else do you explain Rikki Clarke, Ian Ward, Ryan Sidebottom and a 1994 Craig White?

He plays for Worcestershire though. I doubt his selection had anything to do with connections. He performed well on a not very spin-friendly track at Worcestershire. And he certainly did a hell of a lot better than a certain Richard Dawson last season...

 

[The Argonaut]

While I agree with Marc when he says that a full strength England side would have mde things closer, I still can't see how a 2-0 result could have been avoided. The batting line up is marginally different so I don't think that the scores of 79 and 159 would have been improved upon greatly.

The bowling is certainly stronger with Gough and Jones there so maybe the runs to be chased might have been lower.

I just think the players added would not have made up the margin to victory or allowed England to stay in the field for the extra day and a bit required to draw a match.

 

[Tim]

A Gough inspired attack certainly would have lifted the other chargers around him had he taken a few quick wickets, but Gough has not played much test cricket in the last year & a half & its difficult to say at his age whether he can still do it.

Apart from Thorpe missing, there is really no change to the English batting line-up & they should have no excuses. You can argue that Flintoff hasn't been playing and at times he can be more than devastating with the bat however his defence is still quite a concern & Warne or McGrath will be doing their homework on him.

There's no doubt England have a bit of talent in their squad, but their test batting line-up just looks as though its fairly im-balanced & I thought they would have learnt by now that at international level Craig White is more of a number 8 or 9 batsman.

 

[marc71178]

A Gough inspired attack certainly would have lifted the other chargers around him had he taken a few quick wickets, but Gough has not played much test cricket in the last year & a half & its difficult to say at his age whether he can still do it.

I thought Jones was going to have a similar effect, then he got injured!

 

[marc71178]

I thought they would have learnt by now that at international level Craig White is more of a number 8 or 9 batsman.

It was a case of needs must - and to be honest, he has batted well at 7 before for England - especially in the sub-continent.

Looking at statsguru I note he averages 42.85 coming in at number 8 though (not-outs have an effect but he still averages 25 per knock)

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by marc71178
I'm a realist.

The bloke has Surrey and Yorkshire connections, which doesn't seem to be a hindrance to a career for England - how else do you explain Rikki Clarke, Ian Ward, Ryan Sidebottom and a 1994 Craig White?

Also if you look at the players, then you will find out that they were picked after impressive performances (Clarke scored good runs at an average of 44 in his 1st season but didn't get a game for England after all, Ward had shown himself to be a solid player and had a very good A tour, Sidebottom had taken 20 wickets the previous season at an average of 12, did well on the A tour and had started the season well, and White had impressed the selectors with good performances although yes maybe it was a Yorkshire bias from Illingworth there). Yes being from one of those counties helps but maybe its also because they have some of the best players?

[Edited on 27/11/2002 by Rik]

 

[marc71178]

If Clarke were playing from someone like Derbyshire with those figures, there's no way he'd have been selected for England.

 

[V Reddy]

Its happ. just like Ganguly said that England's bowling would really struggle without Darren Gough in the Ashes.

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by marc71178
If Clarke were playing from someone like Derbyshire with those figures, there's no way he'd have been selected for England.

You never know...I mean look at Collingwood at Durham...

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by marc71178
If Clarke were playing from someone like Derbyshire with those figures, there's no way he'd have been selected for England.

You never know...I mean look at Collingwood at Durham...

 

[marc71178]

Who was called up for one dayers following some consistent seasons, and thus is more warranting of a place than someone who's one day performances last year were pretty poor to say the least.

 

[Blewy]

Binga Back In!!!!

Media Release from ACB!!!!!


The Australian team for the Third Orange Test starting in Perth tomorrow has just been released. The team is:

1.Matthew Hayden
2.Justin Langer
3.Ricky Ponting
4.Damien Martyn
5.Stephen Waugh (captain)
6.Darren Lehmann
7.Adam Gilchrist
8.Shane Warne
9.Brett Lee
10.Jason Gillespie
11.Glenn McGrath
12.Andrew Bichel (12th man)

New South Wales fast bowler Brett Lee comes into the side, replacing Queensland quick Andy Bichel.

-Ends-

Australian Cricket Board


Interesting, wonder if the ball he bowled to Steve Waugh in the nets yesterday had anything to do with it....


All i can say is that if the pitch is gonna be as quick as they say it is England better hope they win the toss and bowl....

DID U HEAR THAT NASSER???
BOWL!!!!!!!!!

 

[Top_Cat]

NO!

Unless the WACA is green, you never, NEVER, NEVER bowl first. When you get used to the pace, it is one of the best bating wickets in the world, especially sice the WACA outfields are lethally quick.

Even on the WACA, you always bat first.

 

[Blewy]

Yeah but, the bounce has been what has troubled the poms so far on this tour, and if they bat 1st they will be bundled out for under 100...
Even Vaughan their best batsman has no idea on the bounce out here...

I think their best bet would be to bowl and knock Australia over....
But i can see where ur coming from TC, the Aussies would probably pile on 600 b4 the poms even blink...

 

[Blewy]

Some stats that don't really support what u say TC....

2001/02 NZ win toss & Bat - Draw
2000/01 Aust win toss & Field - Win
1999/00 Pak win toss & Bat - Loss
1998/99 Aust win toss & Field - Win
1997/98 NZ win toss & Bat - Loss
1996/97 Aust win Toss & Bat - Loss
1995/96 SL win toss & Bat - Loss
1994/95 Aust win toss & Bat - Win

OK of the last 8 Tests at the WACA the team batting 1st has one only once, with 1 draw...
So i think that the best option is to field...

 

[Top_Cat]

Well crap I can't really argue with those except to say this: I would maintain that the teams bating first a losing lost due to injudicious batting than any real demons in the pitch, particularly as the team batting second (usually Australia) scored big as a general rule.

I remember hearing that the English, last time they were here, just couldn't believe the Aussie players shouldering arms to deliveries on middle stump. It's a unique surface to bat on and you need experience on it. The fact that SL, Pak, NZ etc. haven't fared well on the pitch batting first suggests that they just didn't play well. Trust me, the WACA is a tought day in the field if you don't bowl well. There's swing in the afternoon when the Freo Doctor comes in but before that, there's nothing in the pitch but bounce.

 

[Blewy]

Its a catch 22 situation really for the English...

If a team has a good Bowling attack u would have to bowl, the English don't have that....
A good batting line-up may also be able to adjust to the situation as well, but England at the moment have neither..

So the question has to be asked what would benefit them more??
Batting and getting slaughtered by a WACA experienced attack with McGrath, Lee and Gillespie, or Bowling and maybe exploiting whatever conditions that are in the pitch early and hoping that the aussies don't deal with the bounce that well..
If it were me i would probably bowl, but knowing my luck ill do a Nasser and make an a$$ off myself...

 

[marc71178]

Originally posted by Gregory Blewett
Some stats that don't really support what u say TC....

2001/02 NZ win toss & Bat - Draw
2000/01 Aust win toss & Field - Win
1999/00 Pak win toss & Bat - Loss
1998/99 Aust win toss & Field - Win
1997/98 NZ win toss & Bat - Loss
1996/97 Aust win Toss & Bat - Loss
1995/96 SL win toss & Bat - Loss
1994/95 Aust win toss & Bat - Win

OK of the last 8 Tests at the WACA the team batting 1st has one only once, with 1 draw...
So i think that the best option is to field...

Those are skewed and when Australia is involved, statistical analysis of match results is pointless as they always win whether they bat first or second!

 

[marc71178]

Well Hayden made it then.

I hope Nasser shows a bit of bloodymindedness if he requests to go off and be replaced by the 12th man.

We all know about his, erm, problem (not even going to attempt to spell it ) and it certainly won't have been caused during the game!

Still at least it makes a change for Australia to have someone injured in a bizarre way!

 

[Blewy]

I think it could actually effect England more if they try to stop hayden being replaced by a 12th man...
The fact that Vaughan hardly fielded in the 2nd test due to a supposed "sore shoulder" and not his pre injured knee...
It could backfire...