*Official* 2022 New Zealand Tour of England, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands

[Spark]

Leadership matters. Not that big a shock that excellent man-managers and leaders who are known for giving players mental clarity and confidence are much better equipped to get the most out of them than the ineptitude of the likes of Silverwood and Colingwood.

 

[NZTailender]

Much used to be made of what Fleming could get out of a substandard set of players propped up by one or two genuinely good players (Cairns etc). We now have the opposite problem of finally having more good players than filler but a captains and coaches who seem intent on misusing, mismanaging and being unimaginative with the talent at their disposal.

That said, I do wonder if there's an element of autonomy to how players are going about their business - as if they're playing individual games rather than a team one.

 

[Moss]

From an England POV, I know this is still early days but the transformation over the past two tests in many ways reminds me of our 2015 ODI side which knocked itself out of the world cup unable to chase down 275 against Bangladesh but then 3 months later chased down 350 odd against NZ with 6 overs to spare. I've been very critical of the Root/Silverwood think tank over the past few years but it's still staggering to see how much of a difference a change in mindset, self belief and trust in others can have on the game in terms of results. Even if we remain a middling test side, it's hard not to respect the courage of this team to play with this kind of freedom on a regular basis and a huge positive to generate buzz for test cricket in England regardless of how the results pan out.

McCullum the common factor in mindset changes across 2015 and 2022, how about that?

While in this case the credit does belong (largely) to the England players for playing the way they did, BMac always had vision and ambition , I’ll give him that. Helped him take up roles he didn’t start his career off with (full-time wicketkeeper, test opener) and achieve reasonable success at, and most notably rise above an indifferent board to take NZ up the rankings.

 

[NZTailender]

McCullum the common factor in mindset changes across 2015 and 2022, how about that?

While in this case the credit does belong (largely) to the England players for playing the way they did, BMac always had vision and ambition , I’ll give him that. Helped him take up roles he didn’t start his career off with (full-time wicketkeeper, test opener) and achieve reasonable success at, and most notably rise above an indifferent board to take NZ up the rankings.

I'm keen to know how much he has learnt because he definitely was a meme for a lot of that time. Overly erratic field changes vs Australia at Brisbane in that '15 series, and then abandoning what made the WC campaign a success in the final.

 

[straw man]

agree that Leadership is the word and it's the difference between these sides right now

England suddenly have it, having been aimless for years (in test cricket). Not for a moment suggesting it papers over all the cracks and that there aren't big problems in the side, but it's amazing what clear purpose and motivation and backing can do to lift performances.

NZ by contrast are doing things that suggest an absence of leadership. Senior players performing worse than they have in the past and falling into bad habits (think Nicholls getting out repeatedly to the pull or aerial cut). Indiscipline in catching and fielding. Having a Plan A (take all the wickets with the new ball) but no real Plan B. Batting like you're already on 100 when you're really on 3 (v Bangladesh at home). Selecting XIs where the composition doesn't make sense as a whole (e.g. 4 new-ball-focussed seamers here). Losing the key moments.

Not saying it's all Latham, though we seem to collapse worse with the bat and lack a Plan B moreso with the bowling under him. Williamson generally a better captain - a cricket obsessive and although undemonstrative is imo quite ruthless in targeting something and focusing on achieving it. Appalling handler of spin bowlers ofc. But I don't really see an alternative to Williamson as captain in the current side. The injuries and another two seasons of IPL are a massive distraction and load for him though - fingers crossed he's terrible again for Sunrisers next season and gets fired?

But really this is a long post to say, NZ need leadership and the way to get that is with a new coach. It's time.

 

[Bahnz]

I'm keen to know how much he has learnt because he definitely was a meme for a lot of that time. Overly erratic field changes vs Australia at Brisbane in that '15 series, and then abandoning what made the WC campaign a success in the final.

Curious about the later point you make. What did McCullum abandon in the final?

 

[straw man]

I didn't want to say it and get labelled I'm a child labour promoter You read between the lines correctly.

For a starter look to make good use of Allen, Sears, Ravindra, Phillips, Nathan Smith, Rippon etc. Not all of them in every format but get them in now in their rightful positions. It could be white ball, red ball or mix of both. Like we did in the 2010s when Southee, Boult, Kane, Latham all started to come in. Maybe mostly use them in white ball and slide them into red ball whenever there is a requirement.

I can't see that happening unless they fire Stead, Larsen to start with and then change captain. Larsen and Stead won't be looking at anyone if they are under 30 it feels. Age has almost become a qualification with this management. Latham and Kane could also be the ones from not letting the management change squads. It's that trust they have in the players that have played with for a long time. It may be coming from the right place but it is not working. Last thing we want to see us go down in very format possible. I think we are approaching white ball cricket with the same mindset with borderline retirement players hoping they will do magic like they did in the past.

Agree, though introducing youth to a side that is underperforming with leadership problems isn't a great idea - want to fix the latter first.

 

[straw man]

Lockie is over 30

I'm not dropping this. First high class genuine quick to get treated so poorly by a historically so lightly resourced side. It's insane how we've wasted him. Fleming would have murdered children for him.

Yeah, I think it'll be really hard to lure Lockie into tests. He's got 2, maybe 3 years to set himself up for life in T20's. If the Indian franchise owners had woken up to his value 4 years ago things might be different, but as things are, and given how many injury problems he's had over the past 2 years, I think he'll have chucked tests in the too risky basket.

It's an injury risk and a possibility of wrecking him for other formats, but I'm still here for the slim possibility that Ferguson plays test cricket again. He hasn't officially retired from test or FC cricket so the first step is for him to play a few FC matches for Auckland.

 

[Moss]

I'm keen to know how much he has learnt because he definitely was a meme for a lot of that time. Overly erratic field changes vs Australia at Brisbane in that '15 series, and then abandoning what made the WC campaign a success in the final.

Sure, he didn't get it right fairly often and in many was the living embodiment of Warne's whole "gotta be prepared to lose in order to win" schtick. But he did have a vision, and built a brand around NZ cricket. Here in India, during the Vettori-Taylor eras NZ was an afterthought in cricket conversations. After he took over, there was a distinct change in the way people saw NZ; and judging by gpeople's attitudes towards the likes of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and the West Indies, this is a difficult thing to do.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

built a brand around NZ cricket

I'd argue the brand is around himself.

 

[Zinzan]

Fair play to Stokes and England, & clearly McCullum's influence is being felt early on.

Good signs for them, especially considering the likes of Archer, Wood, Woakes set to return at some stage. They just need a decent replacement for Crawley who is unfortunately a walking wicket against half decent new ball bowlers 9 out of 10 times.

 

[Moss]

I'd argue the brand is around himself.

Sure, this is may be true and for us it was cringe. But I think a lot of people on this forum underestimate the effect it had.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm an outsider to County, but I think England can build towards this pretty soon

Lees
Compton
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson/Wood
Leach
Broad
Anderson

With Robinson, Wood, Stone, Archer, Potts around there are some good options for Anderson and Broad's potentially soon replacements.

 

[Bahnz]

Well…at least we can look forward to seeing the Soultner trio reunite for one last game in England.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Southee, Boult and Santner

 

[Daemon]

I'm an outsider to County, but I think England can build towards this pretty soon

Lees
Compton
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson/Wood
Leach
Broad
Anderson

With Robinson, Wood, Stone, Archer, Potts around there are some good options for Anderson and Broad's potentially soon replacements.

It's pretty insane that you can justifiably have a 39 year old quick in an XI that you're trying to "build towards".

 

[kevinw]

I'm an outsider to County, but I think England can build towards this pretty soon

Lees
Compton
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson/Wood
Leach
Broad
Anderson

With Robinson, Wood, Stone, Archer, Potts around there are some good options for Anderson and Broad's potentially soon replacements.

I quite like the look of Lees. Anyone can get two low scores on debut but he's scored at least 20 in every innings since. He has a fifty now and his good start yesterday shouldn't be overlooked. Needs to build on those scores but he has been consistent. I'd have Duckett as the other opener.

 

[Skyliner]

Curious about the later point you make. What did McCullum abandon in the final?

Pulled a slip out of the cordon, not long after one of the Aussies - might have been Clarke - snicked it to right where the slip had been.

 

[honestbharani]

always happy to front up regardless of results and predictions going to ****e. We all know I’m a **** but I’m not a **** with a glass jaw

Well yeah, coz otherwise you can never post here.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah it absolutely makes a difference in terms of flat out removing an option for the captain. Whether he’d have stemmed it or taken a few wickets, who knows. But he couldn’t have gone for any more than most of the blokes who were bowling.

Agree. Felt the same in that 2nd test Vs SA when we lost Siraj and why I am still up for injury substitutions in cricket. Its just not the same when its basically 10 Vs 11. NZ were very definitely hampered.

But as others have pointed out, you still cant let a team score 300 in two sessions either. YJB was amazing and Stokes was excellent and Lees played a good knock and that was it. Modern T20 batting and attitudes means the need for bowlers to look for wickets is more important than ever. Maybe that is were NZ faltered, perhaps? There was a dropped catch, wasn't there?