ODI All Rounder Poll - Discussions

[Sunil1z]

Funnily enough I don't rate Kapil's batting because of having to live through the career of another player who averaged 23.xx

That guy delivered you 2009 WT20 and could have delivered you both WT20 2007 and 2011 WC if your other batsmen didn’t choke

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Funnily enough I don't rate Kapil's batting because of having to live through the career of another player who averaged 23.xx

...but that strike rate!

 

[honestbharani]

That guy delivered you 2009 WT20 and could have delivered you both WT20 2007 and 2011 WC if your other batsmen didn’t choke

Misbah?

 

[trundler]

That guy delivered you 2009 WT20 and could have delivered you both WT20 2007 and 2011 WC if your other batsmen didn’t choke

I don't blame him for those losses but he almost never actually did anything substantial so it's hard for me to rate a batter with a low 20s average. Might have a bias against that kind of player.

 

[h_hurricane]

Kapil is getting a lot of unnecessary stick for a 23 average career imo. Most likely it is because we are seeing his career from the lens of 2025 when ODI batting records has reached historically high proportions. The era that he played in, 30 was a reasonably good average for a middle order batsman and he played mostly at 6-7 where he averaged 25-26 (May be even higher if he didn't play as many matches as he did, which was abnormally high for an all rounder for that era). Just in the 80s, he averaged 30+ in positions 6 and 7 over 87 innings which was a pretty big sample size. For lower order batsmen who come in after 40th over mostly, SR takes precedence over average, and he was one of the best ever in history in that role. One of the 4-5 candidates for the best ever allrounder.

Genuine criticism of him should be that he flopped badly batting up the order and his bad decline in the last few years which messed up his averages.

 

[Sunil1z]

Misbah?

I don’t blame Misbah only . Younis Khan was also the major culprit despite being a senior middle order batsman.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't blame him for those losses but he almost never actually did anything substantial so it's hard for me to rate a batter with a low 20s average. Might have a bias against that kind of player.

I don’t blame Misbah only . Younis Khan was also the major culprit despite being a senior middle order batsman.

No, I meant, did you mean Misbah or Shahid Afridi as the 23.xx player?

 

[trundler]

No, I meant, did you mean Misbah or Shahid Afridi as the 23.xx player?

Afridi

 

[Athlai]

For lower order batsmen who come in after 40th over mostly, SR takes precedence over average, and he was one of the best ever in history in that role.

He was closer to the fairly unremarkable Ian Smith than he is to being one of the best ever in history as a lower order basher.

 

[h_hurricane]

He was closer to the fairly unremarkable Ian Smith than he is to being one of the best ever in history as a lower order basher.

With an average of 17, Smith was fairly deplorable as a lower order bat by allrounder standards. Kapil's 23 isn't great but barely deplorable.

Smith scored a quarter of Kapil's runs in his career. He only scored 3 fifties. In WCs, he averaged 13 with a highest score of 29.

 

[ankitj]

Kapil is getting a lot of unnecessary stick for a 23 average career imo. Most likely it is because we are seeing his career from the lens of 2025 when ODI batting records has reached historically high proportions. The era that he played in, 30 was a reasonably good average for a middle order batsman and he played mostly at 6-7 where he averaged 25-26 (May be even higher if he didn't play as many matches as he did, which was abnormally high for an all rounder for that era). Just in the 80s, he averaged 30+ in positions 6 and 7 over 87 innings which was a pretty big sample size. For lower order batsmen who come in after 40th over mostly, SR takes precedence over average, and he was one of the best ever in history in that role. One of the 4-5 candidates for the best ever allrounder.

Genuine criticism of him should be that he flopped badly batting up the order and his bad decline in the last few years which messed up his averages.

What is your ODI equivalent of "bat avg x bowl avg = 1200"

 

[Qlder]

Just noticed Viv Richards was the first player ever to score a hundred and take 5 wkts in the same match (119 & 5/41 vs NZ in 1987).

Only one other player has done it since, Paul Collingwood (112* & 6/31 vs Bangladesh in 2005)

 

[h_hurricane]

What is your ODI equivalent of "bat avg x bowl avg = 1200"

In tests, batting and bowling averages have been in similar ballpark across decades in the post WW 2 period, but same thing cannot be said of ODIs. The current era has been very batting friendly and the averages have been very different from 80s. As a reasonable approximation, Viv the batsman roughly equivalent to Garner the bowler. Hence for 80s, I would say batting average = 900/bowling average. I give a lot of weightage to SR and ER too in ODIs, but that is a different discussion altogether.

In 90s and early 2000s, it could be 1000, as Tendulkar roughly equivalent to Mcgrath. In the recent era, it could be 1200-1300.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I think an average of ~23.8 is absolutely acceptable, for reasons that don't relate to Kapil Dev.

Oram only averaged 24 with the bat in the ODIs and he was a pretty good allrounder

 

[CricAddict]

Just noticed Viv Richards was the first player ever to score a hundred and take 5 wkts in the same match (119 & 5/41 vs NZ in 1987).

Only one other player has done it since, Paul Collingwood (112* & 6/31 vs Bangladesh in 2005)

Wow this is quite surprising.