NZ Domestic Transfers - 2004/2005

[Will Scarlet]

Papps' exclusion

The only reason why Papps missed out in the Natwest Series was because Nathan Astle returned..and it would have been stupid to leave out NZ's best ever ODI opener.

Tim, I understand the inclusion of Astle was responsible for Papps' exclusion. However, if a player is averaging 51 in recent ODIs (including a 92 NO then they would have found room for him in the team, unless the selectors don't have faith in him at present. The majority of the NZ top order average under 35.

Mingster, my apologies, for you said he is UNlikely to represent NZ this year.

And I'm from Hamilton: not Canterbury. I just think Canterbury has enough talent of their own and it seems a waste for McIntosh to defect to an established team. The more cricket someone of his potential plays the better.

 

[Macka]

As long as Marshall/Astle is in the side Papps won't be required. Papps is quite a limited player, he doesn't work the ball around a lot, and relies heavily on the cover drive, flick through mid wicket, and pull once he is in. NZ have Marshall who can work the ball around a lot better, and score at a quicker rate. Papps is only really there to cover for the openers.

Papps got stuck on stirke quite a bit against SA. Once they realised if they placed three fielders on the leg side in the circle Papps had trouble rotating the strike.

 

[Mingster]

Papps also has quite an effective cut shot and straight drives as well.....

You guys are being quite harsh on Papps, he's done what was needed of him in his debut ODI series, and will get another turn sooner rather than later.

 

[Tim]

Papps is a good player...he sticks to what works for him & so far it's paid off. Infact he's like Mark Richardson except he can score alot quicker in the ODI's.

Im absolutely certain teams have tried to stop the flow of runs in Richardsons run scoring areas, but that hasn't stopped him so I think Papps can do the same.

 

[Will Scarlet]

I agree that Papps is a good player, and could be a great player in the next few years for NZ. I certainly hope so.

You are right about his achievements so far. Only Hamish Marshall has had a more successfull introduction to ODIs in recent times.

 

[Tim]

The fact that he got cast aside for Astle in the Natwest Series will probably make him even more determined to stake his place once he gets the opportunity.

He's yet another non-flashy NZ batsman, but as long as he's putting the numbers on the board & helping the NZ team win, I don't really care. We've got a fair number of aggressive batsmen coming through anyway with the likes of Ryder, Taylor etc..we need players like Papps also.

 

[cbuts]

ryder wont make it, he is like his father - going to let alcohol get in the way, especially with his move to wellington

 

[Craig]

ryder wont make it, he is like his father - going to let alcohol get in the way, especially with his move to wellington

Well if I were Jesse Ryder's father (and I'm not) I would be telling him not to end up like his father and give up the alcohol. The guy is potentially the most talented and promising up-and-coming batsman in New Zealand, and somebody should drill it into him that he doesn't want to ruin his career that way and sit back in 15 years time and think "what if?".

 

[Macka]

Don't get me wrong Papps has a lot of talent, I just don't think there is any room for him in the current line up. Times change, we'll see him again for sure.

 

[Tim]

Having talked to a close family friend of Michaels & a former flat mate of his, Papps never shone out at Shirley Boys High School. A few years back they had Astle & McMillan who were carving every bowler up in sight..yet Papps showed little ability until near the end of high school.

Talent-wise..I don't think Papps has much..I think he's just worked bloody hard like Mark Richardson, stuck to a formula & it's got him places. Those are the types of players you want in a team because they've never been constantly told they're extremely talented & they're not full of it. Players like McMillan believe they've got the talent so a lack of training here or there will be ok...not so with Papps who I think trains the hardest out of anyone because he knows he has to if he wants to stay at the top level.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Don't know if I agree with you there, I think Papps has a lot of ability - looks more than capable at the crease. So what if he doesn't score at 80?

I think it's a happy situation to be in where a player like Papps can't make the side. Remember when we had to settle for Blair Hartland, or Darren Murray, or Blair Pocock?

If he wasn't much cop at high school, that doesn't mean he's no good now. Danny Morrison was once a keeper, Richardson and Astle were both dibbly-dobbly bowlers at no.9 in the batting order, Dipak Patel was once a hotshot top order bat who bowled part-time offspin. The thing is, people get older, they improve or discover new talent. Papps is one of those guys and will have his day.

 

[marc71178]

Im absolutely certain teams have tried to stop the flow of runs in Richardsons run scoring areas, but that hasn't stopped him

It didn't stop him, but it ddi slow him to an extent.

But then again, he's just a flat track bully who won't score any runs in the upcoming England NZ series

 

[Mingster]

I see Wellington only have 2 specialist batsmen in that squad....

Woodcock, Walker, Nevin and Franklin are handy batsmen nevertheless.

 

[Tim]

Certainly Papps has some talent. He wouldn't have made it to the BC's if he didn't. But compare him to Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting etc and his talent is limited.

At FC level..those 4 wellington players you mentioned can do a good job in the middle order. At international level, they'd be all down around #8, 9 & #10 though.

 

[anzac]

as I've said eslewhere IMO Papps' 'forward press' combined with his lack of height works on lower / slower pitches, but could get him in trouble when there is pace / bounce..........I didn't see how he got his injury in the Test match, but I'm not surprised re the above...........

I'm sure that the decision to drop him from the ODIs was as much tactical as well as his poor form & missing out on the lead up games, considering how much bounce Harmison was getting on the qualifying pitches - it just so happens that the pitch in the Final suited Macca..........& probably would have suited Papps as well..............

depending on pitch & opposition, I'd still look to play Fleming, Papps, Astle, Marshall, Styris - with some experimentation re the top 4 to find the best combinations.........

 

[Will Scarlet]

I see Wellington only have 2 specialist batsmen in that squad....

Woodcock, Walker, Nevin and Franklin are handy batsmen nevertheless.

I can see Wellington struggling with that batting lineup. Especially since Flemming will be tied up with the BCs most of the summer. More pressure on Ryder. May be what he needs.

 

[Tim]

Did you even see the State Championship results from last season? Wellington won it with that same middle order!

 

[Will Scarlet]

I saw the results. Nevin and Walker pitched in nicely when the top order failed. Can't rely on them to do the same again. Still need more true batsmen in my opinion. Fleming made a few centuries, but those were in the OD games I think.

 

[Mingster]

This team will rely on probably Ryder to open in FC? Jeez. And then Woodcock, Franklin and Nevin to come in next....at least they won't run out of bowling options in the team.

 

[Tim]

Looks like Canterbury have got another former NZ U19 player.

Simon Allen originally from Wellington is apparently set to get a FC game at some stage during next season for Canterbury.
I played against Simon a few years back in Nelson when he was playing for the Wellington U16's & he is a super wicket-keeper/batsman.
At the beginning of last year he scored 160 for the NZ U19's v Northern Districts I think.