Muralitharan a burglar,a thief and a dacoit : Bedi

[pontingrulz]

hyperextension is basically a chuck anyway just the elbow goes in the opposite direction

 

[pontingrulz]

rik what do you reckon about kirtleys action?

 

[Richard]

Interisting because Shoaib's arm hyper-extends in nearly everything he does. I once saw him throw the ball from the boundary and the slo-mo camera caught his arm bending backwards almost as far as he can bend it forwards. It would be extreamly hard for him to throw the ball because his arm bends backwards when the force of bowling is put on it.

Lee hyperextends as well but not as much, sometimes I do think he throws it when he's trying to bowl 100mph.

I never knew Lee had hyper-extension.:wow:
The point about Shoaib is one I've been struggling manfully to make people understand ever since I've understood it but some people are highly reluctant to accept that someone so good cannot be doing something illegal.
Shoaib has suffered more than Kirtley because he's rather better than Kirtley, but they both have exactly the same defect which can create the illusion of throwing when viewed from some angles.
We have a guy just like that at our club, called James Neil. We even made use of video technology and the rulebook to prove his action was legal when some idiot questioned it.

 

[Richard]

lee sometimes has a slight bend in his arm when he is striving for extra pace. say his 155+ balls. shoaib is more of a chucker than lee

But you said Lee chucks sometimes.:rolleyes:
How can Lee be less of a chucker than someone who doesn't chuck?

 

[Richard]

My opinion is that his arm is bent, but it stays bent.

Do you know how difficult that is?
Try it sometime. Try bowling as fast as you can, having your arm not quite as straight as you can get it, and not changing the sinuosity.
Almost impossible, even when you're trying to do it.
There has been no real evidence that Lee chucks - he looks like he does from some angles, but so will anyone. But if we can ever see clearly that the arm is bent from the level of the shoulder onwards, he does.
Peter Roebuck has said he genuinely thinks he does, I'm not so sure.

 

[Richard]

Interesting to read in the Wisden Cricketer the report on the 1st Test.

Suggests his doosra may be a little illegal owing to a "snapping" of the arm, but also says he doesn't expect Murali to ever be called again.

Who wrote that?
And who said Murali bowled a doosra? The doosra is a fingerspinner's delivery, invented by Saqlain Mushtaq and copied by Harbhajan Singh, Shaftab Khalid and, apparently, Sarandeep Singh as well now.
Murali is a wristspinner. Wristspinners bowl stock-balls and wrong-'uns. And sometimes they bowl different deliveries, which they give their own names to.

 

[Rik]

This is no slight on left-arm fingerspinners, but every one I've ever seen appears to chuck. Giles included.

Strange, as a leftie, I try and keep my arm as straight as possible and no one has ever expressed a problem. I didn't think Tuffers looked like he chucked.

 

[Richard]

Richard I am still searching for the post where I actually said being double jointed was illegal. I still think his action is suspicious and will continue to be so no matter how often you trawl through my posts and nit pick. The majority of my posts being written very late after working the entire day on Friday.
I wouldn't mind but I am clearly not the only one who thinks him suspicious. From what I've read a lot of forum members also think so and we clearly know that all over the World a vast amount cricketers do think so to.
Perhaps I didn't write some of the posts as I meant to but tiredness will do that to you!
Feel free to nit pick at this post too.

Well, now I've nit-picked out the incorrecticies from your previous post I can ask you the questions I ask anyone on this subject:
Have you read the relevant rules?
How does Murali break them?
And how many times and to what extent have you studied footage to come to this conclusion?

 

[Rik]

rik what do you reckon about kirtleys action?

100% legal. He even worked on what I thought was a perfectly decent action to make sure people didn't call him again, even though there wasn't a problem then...

 

[Richard]

hyperextension is basically a chuck anyway just the elbow goes in the opposite direction

OK:
1, the bowler can do sod all about hyper-extension and it doesn't give him any advantage, so even if it did make a delivery theoretically illegal, I wouldn't be unhappy to see it overlooked.
2, from the evidence of Kirtley, Shoaib and James (the guy at my club), one of whom has the fastest arm in World cricket, one an arm fast enough to enable him to bowl at 80 mph and one with one fast enough to enable him to bowl at nearly 70 mph, there is nothing illegal about hyper-extension anyway, because the arm is as extended as it can be from the stipulated point onwards. I can't say this definately applies to all double-jointed elbows, but I'd be surprised if it didn't.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Who wrote that?
And who said Murali bowled a doosra? The doosra is a fingerspinner's delivery, invented by Saqlain Mushtaq and copied by Harbhajan Singh, Shaftab Khalid and, apparently, Sarandeep Singh as well now.
Murali is a wristspinner. Wristspinners bowl stock-balls and wrong-'uns. And sometimes they bowl different deliveries, which they give their own names to.

You know full well which ball he means...

 

[Richard]

100% legal. He even worked on what I thought was a perfectly decent action to make sure people didn't call him again, even though there wasn't a problem then...

Him and Shoaib both "worked" on their actions, changed nothing, and plenty stopped making a fuss!
Just a sum-up of the fact that most accusations of chucking simply have no ground.
Perera, clearly, was an exception.

 

[marc71178]

The second I heard that I thought "I hope for your own sake, Shane, that that was a random slip-of-the-tongue, not a deliberate, stratified, fake-mistake".

I don't think he can have said that anything but as a joke - not even he can be that stupid?

 

[iamdavid]

The second I heard that I thought "I hope for your own sake, Shane, that that was a random slip-of-the-tongue, not a deliberate, stratified, fake-mistake".

Certainly sounded like a slip up.

And yet he doesn't seem totally stupid, like david always tells us Williams is. Just so phenominally careless with what he does. He just seems to me to be one of those think-fame-makes-you-invincible lot.

Not as stupid as he appears , just dosent think before he says / does / swallows.

By the way do you get the same commentary that we do down here , with Richie , Warne , Chappel , Lawry , etc.

 

[Richard]

You know full well which ball he means...

What, the top-spinner? Or the leg-break-to-the-right-hander?
They're totally different balls, I just wish people would get the simple things right...

 

[Richard]

do you get the same commentary that we do down here , with Richie , Warne , Chappel , Lawry , etc.

Yep.
Sky just pay for the C9 coverage. Similarly, I am now watching the SuperSport coverage of SA v WI on the same station.

 

[Rik]

Him and Shoaib both "worked" on their actions, changed nothing, and plenty stopped making a fuss!
Just a sum-up of the fact that most accusations of chucking simply have no ground.
Perera, clearly, was an exception.

Kirtley has worked on his action, there are slight differences if you look hard enough.

I do agree with your other points though.

 

[Tom Halsey]

By the way do you get the same commentary that we do down here , with Richie , Warne , Chappel , Lawry , etc.

You missed Tony "The Windies will grovel" Greig.

 

[iamdavid]

You missed Tony "The Windies will grovel" Greig.

And Mark "want to punch in face" Nicholas.

As well as a host of others , Healy , Taylor , SOD.

Was just outlining mate

 

[Tom Halsey]

And Mark "want to punch in face" Nicholas.

Do you Aussies get Atherton, Richie, Nicholas, for our summer. If you do, you will already know what an idiot this guy is.