Michael Jordan vs Lebron James

[kyear2]

Anyway, this is about the Jordan vs lebitch and there are two people here we have to get to admit they are wrong.

Tbf, one is shortpitched and he's generally wrong about most things, so just one.

 

[Slifer]

Afaic the GOAT in basketball really comes down to two players: MJ and Kareem. I tend to favor MJ and here's why. Ignore the championships, MJ is indisputably the greatest offensive Shooting Guard as well as the best defensive SG of all time. Among SG MJ is:
1st ppg (1st overall)
1st bpg
3rd spg (3rd overall)
3rd rpg
4th fg%
6th apg.

People say Lebron is a better all round player because he has more triple doubles and averages more in rebounds and assists. But basketball fundamentally, is about offense and defense and MJ is arguably the best 2 way player ever. This is evidenced by the 9 times he was 1st defensive team all nba while being the scoring champion. MJ is also the only player ever to win the DPOY while being the scoring champ.

What Lebron is doing at this moment is stat padding nothing more nothing less. All you have to do is to watch an interview Shaq gave where he explains that Lebron knows he can't be the goat based on rings or accolades so he's going to play for as long as possible to be the GOAT from that pov ie stats.

 

[andruid]

How do they compare to Kallis though?

 

[shortpitched713]

Anyway, this is about the Jordan vs lebitch and there are two people here we have to get to admit they are wrong.

Not my fault that MJ had no 3 point shot, and kept quitting so couldn't have the career aggregates of LeBron.

Also, in all honesty I think they're about even and have strengths in different areas.

 

[Coronis]

Not my fault that MJ had no 3 point shot, and kept quitting so couldn't have the career aggregates of LeBron.

Also, in all honesty I think they're about even and have strengths in different areas.

I’d say he’s a better facilitator. Considering their heights all things equal he should be a much better rebounder but the gap isn’t as big as one might think.

 

[kyear2]

Just think rings matter, and from that perspective, despite chasing them, Lebron has less than Kareem and Jordan and wasn't as good a defensive player as either.

The game has also opened up, making scoring and facilitating easier, so hence his advantages.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Afaic the GOAT in basketball really comes down to two players: MJ and Kareem. I tend to favor MJ and here's why. Ignore the championships, MJ is indisputably the greatest offensive Shooting Guard as well as the best defensive SG of all time. Among SG MJ is:
1st ppg (1st overall)
1st bpg
3rd spg (3rd overall)
3rd rpg
4th fg%
6th apg.

People say Lebron is a better all round player because he has more triple doubles and averages more in rebounds and assists. But basketball fundamentally, is about offense and defense and MJ is arguably the best 2 way player ever. This is evidenced by the 9 times he was 1st defensive team all nba while being the scoring champion. MJ is also the only player ever to win the DPOY while being the scoring champ.

What Lebron is doing at this moment is stat padding nothing more nothing less. All you have to do is to watch an interview Shaq gave where he explains that Lebron knows he can't be the goat based on rings or accolades so he's going to play for as long as possible to be the GOAT from that pov ie stats.

Ah yes Shaq. Truly the best person to listen to for reasonable basketball takes.

 

[Pant Kameez]

Ah yes Shaq. Truly the best person to listen to for reasonable basketball takes.

Not the best but better than you for sure though.

 

[Slifer]

Not my fault that MJ had no 3 point shot, and kept quitting so couldn't have the career aggregates of LeBron.

Also, in all honesty I think they're about even and have strengths in different areas.

Aggregates are nice and all but in a real game situation averages are more relevant. Lebron has 40k points but he's not scoring that in a random game, he's scoring whatever he averages. And in terms of averages he only has assists and rebounds over MJ of the 5 major categories. Rebounds is self explanatory, Lebron is a 6 9 small forward and MJ is a 6 6 shooting guard. Lebron is an above average facilitator, so I'll give him that.

 

[shortpitched713]

Aggregates are nice and all but in a real game situation averages are more relevant. Lebron has 40k points but he's not scoring that in a random game, he's scoring whatever he averages. And in terms of averages he only has assists and rebounds over MJ of the 5 major categories. Rebounds is self explanatory, Lebron is a 6 9 small forward and MJ is a 6 6 shooting guard. Lebron is an above average facilitator, so I'll give him that.

Well we're not comparing exrreme, like say Ralph Sampson to Antonio McDyess. They have very similar averages in most statistical categories.

And LeBron is much better than an "above average" facilitator.

 

[Slifer]

Well we're not comparing exrreme, like say Ralph Sampson to Antonio McDyess. They have very similar averages in most statistical categories.

And LeBron is much better than an "above average" facilitator.

Ok then since they're close statistically, the only thing left is accolades and even individually it's a slam dunk for MJ:

5 mvps vs 4
6 fmvps vs 4
10 scoring titles vs 1
3 steals titles vs 0
1 DPOY vs 0

MJ is one of one to win DPOY + Scoring title.
One of 3 to sweep the season mvps ie all star, league and finals; MJ did it twice. Bear in mind MJ has player 6 less years than Lebron. Really and truly, MJ actually played 13 seasons not 15, and he still outshines James.

 

[shortpitched713]

Lol, Michael played 15 seasons. You can't just remove some because you feel like it.

As I've already said MJ's peak years were definitely the best ever. But LeBron was no slouch at his peak either. Both suffered for individual accolades like MVPs due to voter fatigue, but I think it generally hurt LeBron more of the 2.

 

[Slifer]

Lol, Michael played 15 seasons. You can't just remove some because you feel like it.

As I've already said MJ's peak years were definitely the best ever. But LeBron was no slouch at his peak either. Both suffered for individual accolades like MVPs due to voter fatigue, but I think it generally hurt LeBron more of the 2.

He missed most of his 2nd year through injury and came back at the tail end of 1995 season.Still just to make you feel better let's go with 15.Still 15<<21.

 

[Slifer]

Lol, Michael played 15 seasons. You can't just remove some because you feel like it.

As I've already said MJ's peak years were definitely the best ever. But LeBron was no slouch at his peak either. Both suffered for individual accolades like MVPs due to voter fatigue, but I think it generally hurt LeBron more of the 2.

Yeah maybe regarding the league mvps but the fmvps, scoring titles etc are purely based on performances. And performance wise Jordan > James. I'll give LeBron credit for his longevity though, but what's the point of playing forever and not winning a thing. And he had all the chances in the world.

 

[Victor Ian]

. And he had all the chances in the world.

Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7...8!
The guy teabagged himself forever with that. But hey...he's a facilitator. He facilitates. MJ just did it himself.

 

[shortpitched713]

Yeah maybe regarding the league mvps but the fmvps, scoring titles etc are purely based on performances. And performance wise Jordan > James. I'll give LeBron credit for his longevity though, but what's the point of playing forever and not winning a thing. And he had all the chances in the world.

4 championships is "not winning a thing". Okay. Not to mention all the finals and perpetual deep playoff runs that were a hallmark of the LeBron era.

It's not as clear cut as "Jordan winner, LeBron loser".

Jordan's teams without Pippen were whipping boys in the East for the Celtics and others. Even with Pippen he lost multiple times to Pistons before getting over the hump. And his Wizards teams were a joke obviously.

LeBron had only 4 years with Wade where he had a partner of the caliber of Pippen, imo. He only won 2 of those years, but he also won 2 years when he definitely didn't have the best team in the league.

Jordan was definitely more clinical and ruthless when he had the best tools to win, but wasn't necessarily any better of a winner than Lebron outside of those ideal circumstances. And he never led a team as bad as the 2020 Lakers to a championship, even if we call it a "bubble" chip.

 

[Slifer]

4 championships is "not winning a thing". Okay. Not to mention all the finals and perpetual deep playoff runs that were a hallmark of the LeBron era.

It's not as clear cut as "Jordan winner, LeBron loser".

Jordan's teams without Pippen were whipping boys in the East for the Celtics and others. Even with Pippen he lost multiple times to Pistons before getting over the hump. And his Wizards teams were a joke obviously.

LeBron had only 4 years with Wade where he had a partner of the caliber of Pippen, imo. He only won 2 of those years, but he also won 2 years when he definitely didn't have the best team in the league.

Jordan was definitely more clinical and ruthless when he had the best tools to win, but wasn't necessarily any better of a winner than Lebron outside of those ideal circumstances. And he never led a team as bad as the 2020 Lakers to a championship, even if we call it a "bubble" chip.

You say MJ was whipping boys b4 Pippen and that's true but he took his licks like a man and didn't jump from team to team to team creating one super team after another. And those Celtics and piston teams were legendary teams especially the one MJ dropped 63 points on after returning from a broken foot (against doctors orders). Once MJ got help and played into Phil's system it was over for the rest of the league.

A team as bad as 2020 Lakers? What. That team had Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard and Rajon Rondo ie 3 future hofs and Lebron. 2 years later he added WestBrook and Melo and lol lol they missed the playoffs.

Jordan needed one perennial all star in Scottie Pippen and won 6. MJ made the likes of Kerr, Grant, Cartwright etc household names and none of them were future hofs; they were role players. Lebron has played with the most all stars/hofs in nba history and still has less rings. And MJ is a better winner, Lebron has been to 10 finals vs MJ s 6, yet MJ has won 24 games in the finals vs Lebrons 22. Give it up dude!!

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

You say MJ was whipping boys b4 Pippen and that's true but he took his licks like a man and didn't jump from team to team to team creating one super team after another. And those Celtics and piston teams were legendary teams especially the one MJ dropped 63 points on after returning from a broken foot (against doctors orders). Once MJ got help and played into Phil's system it was over for the rest of the league.

A team as bad as 2020 Lakers? What. That team had Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard and Rajon Rondo ie 3 future hofs and Lebron. 2 years later he added WestBrook and Melo and lol lol they missed the playoffs.

Jordan needed one perennial all star in Scottie Pippen and won 6. MJ made the likes of Kerr, Grant, Cartwright etc household names and none of them were future hofs; they were role players. Lebron has played with the most all stars/hofs in nba history and still has less rings. And MJ is a better winner, Lebron has been to 10 finals vs MJ s 6, yet MJ has won 24 games in the finals vs Lebrons 22. Give it up dude!!

You can’t just based a players greatness based on championship. In that case Russell is easily The GOAT.

Russell won 3 more championship than the conference final Jordan made and 1 more than conference semi Jordan made! Also Jordan never won when there were 24 teams. Even if we believing, it’s easier to win championship in less team Russell is still light years ahead of Jordan, if we basing this on championship.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Bron is the better player. The only thing Jordan has over Lebron is his championship. If we go by that logic Jordan is still nowhere close to The Goat. 11 is wayy more than 6.

 

[Coronis]

Bron is the better player. The only thing Jordan has over Lebron is his championship. If we go by that logic Jordan is still nowhere close to The Goat. 11 is wayy more than 6.

lol.

5 x MVP vs 4
10x Scoring Champ vs 1
1 x DPOY vs 0
9 x All Defense vs 6
3 x Steal Champ vs 0

Lets also remember LeBron has played 5 (really 6) seasons more than Jordan. He was also a far better shooter outside the key - unfortunately we only have the shooting data for a few of his seasons - and far better FT shooter. Better offensively and defensively.