Michael Clarke

[marc71178]

I took his comment to mean he could peel off a century like that against all but about 2 or 3 test sides....... say, South Africa, Pakistan.......the ones with better bowling attacks.

Having seen his postings on this kind of subject (there are at least 50 Australian fielders better than Hussain springs to mind as one such) age_master can only expect to have his sanity questioned when he makes statements like this.

 

[marc71178]

But yours decided to sign Obuya...:rolleyes:

Sorry, couldn't help but have a pop!

Yes, and we did for 2 reason's - 1. knowing Giles is going to be away most of the summer and Smith is beginning to fade, we needed a spinner.

and 2. Surely you should know by now that EVERY team should have a leg-spinner?

 

[luckyeddie]

Yes, and we did for 2 reason's - 1. knowing Giles is going to be away most of the summer and Smith is beginning to fade, we needed a spinner.

and 2. Surely you should know by now that EVERY team should have a leg-spinner?

Both points are perfectly valid.

I think we were all thrilled (on this board) with Obuya a couple of times in the World Cup - he looks a fabulous prospect and I wish him all the success in the world.

Warney put an end to the old adage that leg-spin was a dying art (mmmph mmmph trying to resist typing 'chemistry', fails miserably).

I watched a village game a week or so ago. 2 leggies bowling in tandem. OK, both rubbish but the point was they were trying to bowl leggies.

The future's bright (no, not RAY Bright - he was slow left arm orthodox).

 

[Top_Cat]

Top cat, is your main prob with Clarke the fact that most here seem to be arguing for his inclusion at the expense of Darren Lehmann, a South Australian (sort of, well, he plays there anyway) or that you genuinely feel he is, or would be, out of his depth in the test arena?

Yeah I'll admit to a little of the SA bias. But only because Boof should have been picked years before he finally was. Either way, regardless of who he'd replace, I'd still say the very same thing; he needs more time to prove himself All of the guys above him have proven themselves. And I get the feeling that the Aussie team heirarchy wants to have a longer look too. Rick Ponting was quoted as saying that Clarke would have to bide his time. For the Test vice-captain (soon to be captain) and one-day captain says something like that, it's telling.

All I'm saying is that Michael Clarke may be talented but there are many equally talented players around and of the current crop of top-order players, all of them were touted as future greats much the same as he was. In that sense he's not special. Just like all of those, he'll have to pay his dues in interstate cricket and prove that he wasnt a one-season wonder. And as Marc and Rik so thoughtfully pointed out, there are those who have great first seasons and then miserable second seasons. Ian Bell is just as naturally gifted as Clarke, by the way for those who haven't seen him.

If he has a great second season, I'll be first in line to call for his inclusion in the Test side. I'm a big fan of his batting believe me and think he 'looks' like a fantastic prospect but having been around for a little longer than some here, I've seen it all before. And I've seen players equally gifted fall down when it comes time to perform consistently, not in just a few meaningless one-day games when the pressure isn't really on you to score runs.

Hasn't Lehmann shown he is out of his depth as well, in so far as his technique is suspect against test bowlers?

He is still a little suspect against genuine quick bowling. But then he always has been a little. Other than that, without dominating, he hasn't looked THAT troubled.

his averaged nearly 50 is FC this summer which included one ton at about a run a ball - if he can do that against an aussie state side would say he would have no trouble foing it against all but 2 or 3 test sides now, without your magical 'another season or tough pura cup cricket'

No kidding, this has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen on this board. The only reason I won't take it apart point by point is because the lack of logic demonstrated in it (along with the denigration of 'all but 2 or 3 Test side's' bowling attacks) makes the reasons why it's so palpably untrue self-evident. I bet you're one of those people who gets so horrified when people from other countries talk about Aussie cricket arrogance or the 'Ugly Australians'. You've just given an extremely relevent reason why they would say such things.

Top_Cat I dont really agree I have never ever seen Clark Troubled considerably of the front or back foot playing any shot and from what I have seen he absoulotly murders the short ball not as well as Ponting but very good none the less.

You obviously didn't see him in the Pura Cup final, then. My opinion is that he's hardly been tested. Next season, you can bet he will be. Now that bowlers around Australia have gotten a decent look at him, you can be sure they will probe all the little weaknesses in his game. And the domestic bowlers in Australia are certainly good enough. Will Clarke be good enough to stand up to it? Time will tell. The mere fact we don't know how well he will stand up to the extra pressure of being targetted specifically means it's far too early to pick him at the highest level.

You need more proof that someone is good enough than one season then making hay in International cricket when batting under no pressure. Interisting that when Australia collapsed in the last one he scored only 1...

Good point. As I keep saying, he hasn't really been tested. NSW won the Pura Cup and the ING Cup this year so he's been in nothing but winning sides. If they struggle next year, will he? Who knows..........

 

[Rik]

and 2. Surely you should know by now that EVERY team should have a leg-spinner?

D'oh

 

[Simon]

Top cat i think you are trying to find too many negatives in Clarkes game, hes still young, he will still get better, hes done well when hes had the chance. Its dumb to say hes only played well in winning sides cause we havent seen him in loosing sides.
Just cause we havent seen him under pressure doesnt mean he will fail.
No matter what your feeling about him is, theres no doubt this man is the future of our batting line up, hes a future super star, thats something he will have to deal with when it comes time.
Wouldnt you say hes done a great job to shine for NSW in the side they have. When you are playing around guys like Bevan, mark Waugh and Slater you are doing well to consistently out score them against the same attacks on the same pitch.

 

[Kenny]

Well in his very first ODI he essentially guided us home against England with a terrific knock when it looked like we were in a bit of trouble, so I guess you could say that was a bit of pressure, particularly in one's first game.

All I hope is that he's not made to wait too long. Ponting wasn't. Steve Waugh wasn't.
And poor old Boof, well he was peaking at the golden era of the Waugh twins........who was going to be dropped out of that side? When Boon went, Ponting came in. Mark Waugh played well for years, pulled us out of the poo many times...... and only really lost his spot because he was 37.........it's not as if the team was struggling.

Who is next in line for test selection?
Martin Love would be no.1? Then Clarke?
Or someone else? (Don't say Katich)

 

[marc71178]

And as Marc and Rik so thoughtfully pointed out, there are those who have great first seasons and then miserable second seasons. Ian Bell is just as naturally gifted as Clarke, by the way for those who haven't seen him.

It's amazing how many players in England have a great first season and poor second season. Bell is just one in a long line. Not sure if it's the same down under?

Fortunately now we may have the answer in sending them to the Academy (it certainly seems to have worked for Troughton and Anderson)

 

[Eclipse]

errmm.. well correct me if I am wrong but I think he avraged around 40 in the 2001 season as well so It's not his first good year.

I Know he scored at least 2 FC hundreds & a OD hundred in 2001 and was playing very well.

 

[Rik]

Or someone else? (Don't say Katich)

Why not? He just hit a very stylish ton...

 

[Kenny]

Why not? He just hit a very stylish ton...

Where, in the lancashire league??

No, I assume in county? I think Katich is a good player, but I'm still narky at him for leaving WA........to go to NSW.

I don't feel he furthered his career by doing so - I feel, as do many, it was more to do with a personality clash with coach Mike Veletta.

 

[Rik]

Where, in the lancashire league??

No, I assume in county? I think Katich is a good player, but I'm still narky at him for leaving WA........to go to NSW.

I don't feel he furthered his career by doing so - I feel, as do many, it was more to do with a personality clash with coach Mike Veletta.

For Hampshire!

He looked the real deal then he seemed to loose it. Last year he played for Yorkshire as cover and didn't get many runs. Hopefully he'll get back to buisness this summer.

 

[Simon]

its a shame that useless git Katich has played a test, he never deserved to, and hopefully the selectors wake up and realise there are a lot of players in front of him.

 

[Eclipse]

its a shame that useless git Katich has played a test, he never deserved to, and hopefully the selectors wake up and realise there are a lot of players in front of him.

Yeah but that useless git would make any other test team probably.

I think he did deserve his spot he made over 1000 FC runs in 2000 at well over 70 and a strike rate of 70.

 

[Simon]

so it was ok for Simon Katich to make the test side on 1 good season, yet not good enough for Clarker to make it on 2 good seasons.
katich has just always been noted as a future test captain, he is certainly not a better player than Hussey, Love, Clarke, Maher, Bevan, Blewett, Lehmann, Hodge.
The australian selections really make some strange decisions sometimes.

 

[Tim]

Honestly, I don't think Australians have to complain too much about their selectors..they get it right most of the time & don't give out test caps left, right & centre like certain other countries do.

 

[Simon]

yeh but they have a problem with earmarking players, katich, Noffke, Clarke, Watson ara few that come to mind.
Im sure this annoys the hell out of players like Brad Williams, Jimmy Maher and Mike Hussey, who have performed for ages now and dont get a look in really because of the selectors bias.

 

[Tim]

Australia currently have rich competition for places in the test & odi teams. So whatever happens the selectors will be damned and players will be disappointed. Several players in Australia like Mike Hussey are just very unfortunate that they've been playing at the same time as Langer, Hayden etc.

 

[Kenny]

yeh but they have a problem with earmarking players, katich, Noffke, Clarke, Watson ara few that come to mind.
Im sure this annoys the hell out of players like Brad Williams, Jimmy Maher and Mike Hussey, who have performed for ages now and dont get a look in really because of the selectors bias.

Personally I don't rate Maher. As far as I'm conerned the only reason he got a ODI gig is because of Hohns. Same with Bichel constantly preferred over Williams.

 

[Simon]

so you dont think the fact that he (maher) scored more runs than anyone in the ING cup 2 seasons ago as the reason he went into the 1d side.
Maher is one of the best 1d batsmen Australia have and it would be stupid to play someone like Katich in his place.