Michael Clarke

[Kenny]

langer, hayden and martyn will still be there in 3 years, form permitting.
Clarke has to wait his turn like everyone.
there is a big possiblity that australia would be a stronger side with clarke in there for lehmann, but we are already the best team, surely we dont need to get better at the risk of stuffing up the balance of the side.

Well the only difference I can see is that Clarke is a better fieldsman!! They both bat top order, both bowl left arm darts, I'm not sure how the balance of the side would be stuffed up?

 

[age_master]

i disagree, i think that the side on average is way way too old. we need more young plaers in teh side, i would suggest playing watson in the bangladesh test series as an all rounder but he is injured

The Average age of the Batting in Australia is 33, so in 3 years the average age will be like 35 which is around the age most will retire so we urgently need to get some of the younger players into the team - especially if they are as good as clarke is.



remember that ricky ponting guy.... remember when he was a little younger, well thats basically what Clarke is like now.


qand yes i already rate him ahead of lehmann, possibly Love as well, but thats just cause he scores 15-20 or even more runs average per hundred balls more.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Plus the more 1 d cricket he plays at international level will only be a plus when he finally does become a test batsman.
Look at adam gilchrist for example, he played 80 ODI's before a test, and he averages 58!

Actually, in some case it proves counterproductive. IMO, a player (who you intend to play Test cricket) should be selected in that arena first and ODI's second. People like Ricardo Powell's game has changed to an extent that he just can't bat for long periods at any level of the game - too much ODI cricket.

 

[Bazza]

iThe Average age of the Batting in Australia is 33, so in 3 years the average age will be like 35 which is around the age most will retire so we urgently need to get some of the younger players into the team - especially if they are as good as clarke is.

Glad I didn't go to your school!

 

[Simon]

Glad I didn't go to your school!

LOL yeh, he probably pays $2000 a year to go to a private school and learn 33+3 =35 :P

 

[Top_Cat]

698 runs @ 39.88........1 century and 4 50's from 19 innings!
His hundred in the West Indies makes up nearly a quarter of his test runs.........I liken him to Grame Hick - both bullies at domestic level, suspect at test level.

This is mitigated against by the fact that Lehmann should certainly have been picked years ago. He was primed to be picked when he was 25 or so (and was 12th man for a Test when he was 19) but the Aussie selectors refused to do so, even when Mark Waugh was going through a bad trot. Maybe they're persisting with him to make up for lost time as a "Sorry we didn't pick you when we should have"?

Now is the best time to bring a young player in - while there is still plenty of experience around him. Wait 2,3,4 more years, and there may be no Hayden, Langer, S.Waugh, Martyn........it is so much better to do it by degrees.

I agree but I still say he's not ready. He's pretty raw and at FC level, he looks like a reasonable player but at Test level, against virtually any opposition, he will struggle. As I said, he needs to have another season of tough Pura Cup cricket under his belt just to see if he isn't a one-season wonder.

remember that ricky ponting guy.... remember when he was a little younger, well thats basically what Clarke is like now.

See, I've heard this and I still don't understand the comparison. I reckon they look like totally different players and Rick Ponting was certainly technically far superior at the same stage of their careers. Plus, Rick Ponting has always been a very, very strong back-foot player whereas Michael CLarke looks much stronger off the front-foot than he is off the back-foot (where he struggles, in my opinion).

So, yeah I just don't understand why people are calling him that. The only comparison which makes any sense is that, like Ponting, Clarke is being picked younger than most other Aussie batsmen.

qand yes i already rate him ahead of lehmann, possibly Love as well, but thats just cause he scores 15-20 or even more runs average per hundred balls more.

Now, yes this is true. 5-7 years ago, no way. Lehmann used to be a shot-player of the highest order and would easily out-muscle Clarke in that regard.

I once watched Lehmann and Paul Nobes knock off a one-day chase of 216-odd THEMSELVES (bear in mind they were opening the batting) of which Lehmann scored 142*. Also, Nobes was an extremely aggressive batsman too so for him to score as slowly as he did, it meant that obvious Lehmann was on fire and he thought he'd just hang back a bit. But yeah, I was there for this match and it was an amazing innings.

http://www-aus.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1994-95/AUS_LOCAL/MMC/SOA_TAS_MMC_23OCT1994.html

 

[luckyeddie]

LOL yeh, he probably pays $2000 a year to go to a private school and learn 33+3 =35 :P

Doesn't work like that. What's implied is that there will be a little natural wastage - Steve Waugh. Knock him on the head, give the captaincy to Ponting, bring in Michael Clarke, move on three years, then 33 + 3 can = 35.

Or maybe he can't add up.

 

[age_master]

meh, typo, that was funnily enough meant to add up


Clarke is fine of the back foot, doesn't cut that much but can pull better than most.


ohh and yoru saying that Bangladesh are better than QLD and WA or any state side here for that matter




well duh Lehmann could outmuscle Clarke (but than again he does weigh about 4 times as mcuh as him) especially 7 years ago when clarke was what 15 years old....


ohh and ricky ponting had heaps of your 'technical deficiensies' when he was younger, he used tro get out heaps early pushing at the ball - 2 years ago Ponting had a test average of like 42, when he scored over 20 he averaged 84 (tells you he got out early alot).. so what tech deficiencies does clarke have that Ponting didn't

 

[age_master]

hell of a match that lehmann one, against some of the greatest bowlers in australian cricket history, especially the Di Venuto fella

 

[Kenny]

hell of a match that lehmann one, against some of the greatest bowlers in australian cricket history, especially the Di Venuto fella

Like I said, flat track bully............

 

[Top_Cat]

Clarke is fine of the back foot, doesn't cut that much but can pull better than most.

I disagree. To me he commits to the front foot too early and against guys who can exploit this, he's in trouble.

ohh and yoru saying that Bangladesh are better than QLD and WA or any state side here for that matter

No. Who said that? You're arguing against something I didn't even say, known in argumentative logic as a Straw-Man Fallacy.

well duh Lehmann could outmuscle Clarke (but than again he does weigh about 4 times as mcuh as him) especially 7 years ago when clarke was what 15 years old....

Reductio in Absurdum. Another tactic resorted to by those who can't argue against the points raised.

ohh and ricky ponting had heaps of your 'technical deficiensies' when he was younger, he used tro get out heaps early pushing at the ball - 2 years ago Ponting had a test average of like 42, when he scored over 20 he averaged 84 (tells you he got out early alot).. so what tech deficiencies does clarke have that Ponting didn't

Ponting didn't commit himself to the front-foot fully early in his career but as far as technical deficiencies, that was about it. He has always played with a straight bat and his play off the back foot as always been world-class.

Mike Clarke has an angled bat, poor weight transfer to the back foot and plays with an open face when he plays the square drive. When he drills it, it's a good shot but if I was bowling to him, I'd be putting the ball there with a packed slips cordon waiting for the inevitable edge. And dont't hink that just because it's a strong shot of his that it's not worth trying. Remember when Stephen Fleming set strong off-side fields encouraging Damien Martyn to drive off the back-foot two years ago? It's probably his strongest shot yet how many times did he get caught there?

 

[Kenny]

Reductio in Absurdum - I love that!!

Top cat, is your main prob with Clarke the fact that most here seem to be arguing for his inclusion at the expense of Darren Lehmann, a South Australian (sort of, well, he plays there anyway) or that you genuinely feel he is, or would be, out of his depth in the test arena?

Hasn't Lehmann shown he is out of his depth as well, in so far as his technique is suspect against test bowlers?

Would you be arguing aginst Clarke's inclusion if it were say, Damien Martyn people were speculating about?

And finally, what if he were slightly out of his depth initially anyway? So were S.Waugh, S.Warne, I.Healy..........and he would probably do as well as Darren, and have the advantage of having a future for Australia.

 

[Eclipse]

Top_Cat I dont really agree I have never ever seen Clark Troubled considerably of the front or back foot playing any shot and from what I have seen he absoulotly murders the short ball not as well as Ponting but very good none the less.

His weight transfer is fine because of the way he uncoils he is natrualy capable of moving forward or back quite quickly while maintaining good balance.

Alot of the people I have spoken to including Greg Chappell tell me Clark has no real weekneses in his game that are likley to cause him problems in his future Australian carear.

 

[age_master]

I agree but I still say he's not ready. He's pretty raw and at FC level, he looks like a reasonable player but at Test level, against virtually any opposition, he will struggle. As I said, he needs to have another season of tough Pura Cup cricket under his belt just to see if he isn't a one-season wonder.

his averaged nearly 50 is FC this summer which included one ton at about a run a ball - if he can do that against an aussie state side would say he would have no trouble foing it against all but 2 or 3 test sides now, without your magical 'another season or tough pura cup cricket'

 

[luckyeddie]

Like I said, flat track bully............

I never mentioned Corky once. Where's Scorpio when you need him?

 

[marc71178]

his averaged nearly 50 is FC this summer which included one ton at about a run a ball - if he can do that against an aussie state side would say he would have no trouble foing it against all but 2 or 3 test sides now, without your magical 'another season or tough pura cup cricket'

FFS, you've spouted some real dross in your time, but this takes the biscuit!

Yes, it was run a ball, but to suggest that the attack he faced (Kasprowicz, Noffke, Hopes and Anderson) is better than any Test side (except maybe for Bangladesh and Zimbabwe) is utter rubbish!

Yes, Australian State Cricket is hard fought, but there is now way that success against the substandard bowlers playing when the International players are away would mean he'd do it to "all but 2 or 3 test sides"

If he were really that good, I find it interesting that not one county side has made an attempt to sign him.

 

[Rik]

Hmmmm...this just smacks of Ian Bell Syndrome. IE the guy has a great 1st season, for a while he's been built up as the next best thing. Next year he could have a horror season and drop out of the recconing, seriously. Bell is struggling but whenever I've seen him he's looked class, but he's just not making the runs. You need more proof that someone is good enough than one season then making hay in International cricket when batting under no pressure. Interisting that when Australia collapsed in the last one he scored only 1...

Lehmann and Love deserve their chances, they've proven they are consistant scorers over many seasons.

And don't just go "oh but he's too good to fail," Ian Bell was...

 

[Rik]

If he were really that good, I find it interesting that not one county side has made an attempt to sign him.

But yours decided to sign Obuya...:rolleyes:

Sorry, couldn't help but have a pop!

 

[Kenny]

FFS, you've spouted some real dross in your time, but this takes the biscuit!

Yes, it was run a ball, but to suggest that the attack he faced (Kasprowicz, Noffke, Hopes and Anderson) is better than any Test side (except maybe for Bangladesh and Zimbabwe) is utter rubbish!

Yes, Australian State Cricket is hard fought, but there is now way that success against the substandard bowlers playing when the International players are away would mean he'd do it to "all but 2 or 3 test sides"

If he were really that good, I find it interesting that not one county side has made an attempt to sign him.

I took his comment to mean he could peel off a century like that against all but about 2 or 3 test sides....... say, South Africa, Pakistan.......the ones with better bowling attacks.

 

[Neil Pickup]

West Indies, India on a spinner's pitch, New Zealand, England...

Their attacks are all easily >> Kasprowicz, Noffke, Hopes and Anderson