McGrath vs Imran (on flat pitches)

[Sliferxxxx]

I'll not be glib on this one.

No bowler will always be great in unhelpful wickets.

With with the slightest hint of bounce McGrath would always be a handful and you can be assured he wouldn't be a liability.

McGrath could also move the ball both ways, still being a threat from that perspective keeping the ball in the corridor.

The origin of Imran being great in the SC and subsequently on flat pitches is based purely on his performances at home. SL were minnows and he sincerely struggled in India.

So I'm not seeing the obvious advantage that you're referencing.

Flat wicket merchants top 5:

Marshall
Mcgrath
Bumrah
Imran
Steyn

Honorable mentions to Holding, Bishop, Wasim etc

Spicy wicket merchants:

Ambrose
Donald
Steyn
Philander
Garner




Bowlers like Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath and Bumrah and Holding generally could bowl on anything with similar effect.

 

[DrWolverine]

Flat/Dead pitches : Imran Khan

 

[subshakerz]

McGrath could generate uneven bounce naturally due to his height and was the greatest ever at analysing a Batsmen and picking a line and length where they're struggling and bowling there all day along with pin point accuracy. I think McGrath would definitely have the advantage until Imran can tap into the reverse.

Again this assumes there is bounce and cracks in the wicket in the first place. Otherwise on a SC pancake wicket the most he can do is keep a bat quiet.

 

[Johan]

Again this assumes there is bounce and cracks in the wicket in the first place. Otherwise on a SC pancake wicket the most he can do is keep a bat quiet.

Nah, I meant bounce you can naturally contract from having a high release point, and recongnising struggling line and length via just focusing on the batsmen's weakness IE bowling a legcutter to Kohli

 

[subshakerz]

This also has some merit to it.

And yes in '88 in Bourda he was great, but remember, post decline Greenidge, Simmons, Hooper and Logie. Viv was out and it was basically Richardson.

You again choose to not mention Haynes. And also forget that Imran took 9 wickets when Viv was there in the next test.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah, I meant bounce you can naturally contract from having a high release point, and recongnising struggling line and length via just focusing on the batsmen's weakness IE bowling a legcutter to Kohli

Ok when did he do that outside of Australia in his career on a flat wicket against a great lineup which was the question in the OP. I do think he could keep it tight though but I definitely think he would be somewhat neutralised.

It's kinda odd because this is the one scenario I consider McGrath to be less ideal in.

I would have Marshall, Imran, Holding, Wasim, and Steyn easily over McGrath on a flat wicket. Pretty obvious to me you need someone with an extra great.

 

[subshakerz]

Close one but based on my observations and the key metric being an atg batting lineup, I'll say Glenn. I mean that is his claim to fame ie being the one fast bowler to excel on flat wickets of the 2000s. I believe it's more to do with the other greats retiring at the same time but whatever.

I think we should clarify which flat wickets they are. If it's Australia, McGrath can still be successful if there is bounce. If it's SC, you definitely prefer a more pacey bowler.

 

[Johan]

Ok when did he do that outside of Australia in his career on a flat wicket against a great lineup which was the question in the OP. I do think he could keep it tight though but I definitely think he would be somewhat neutralised.

It's kinda odd because this is the one scenario I consider McGrath to be less ideal in.

I would have Marshall, Imran, Holding, Wasim, and Steyn easily over McGrath on a flat wicket. Pretty obvious to me you need someone with an extra great.

I mean, literally his 500th wicket comes to mind where he beat someone with the bounce.

I'd have a few guys over McGrath on a flat wicket too, Holding and Marshall are a given.

 

[Johan]

I think we should clarify which flat wickets they are. If it's Australia, McGrath can still be successful if there is bounce. If it's SC, you definitely prefer a more pacey bowler.

The ball matters as well, If it's in England and even if the wicket is flat, the newball would still swing and seam a lot due to the nature of the dukes.

 

[subshakerz]

I'll not be glib on this one.

No bowler will always be great in unhelpful wickets.

With with the slightest hint of bounce McGrath would always be a handful and you can be assured he wouldn't be a liability.

McGrath could also move the ball both ways, still being a threat from that perspective keeping the ball in the corridor.

The origin of Imran being great in the SC and subsequently on flat pitches is based purely on his performances at home. SL were minnows and he sincerely struggled in India.

So I'm not seeing the obvious advantage that you're referencing.

Perhaps you could talk about McGrath in SL and Pakistan too to make a fair comparison. Or how McGrath struggled against SA at home.

The only caveat you have is a flat wicket with bounce. What if there is no bounce? Are you honestly going with McGrath? I would always prefer a bowler with pure pace and swing in this scenario.

 

[subshakerz]

I mean, literally his 500th wicket comes to mind where he beat someone with the bounce.

I'd have a few guys over McGrath on a flat wicket too, Holding and Marshall are a given.

We could talk about him vs SA at home when McGrath struggled which is the closest we have to him facing a strong batting lineup on flat wickets (again with bounce).

His 500th wicket was on a somewhat bowling friendly first day wicket.

The ball matters as well, If it's in England and even if the wicket is flat, the newball would still swing and seam a lot due to the nature of the dukes.

Sure in England, McGrath is tops though if it's seaming I do wonder how flat the wicket is. I would prefer Imran in WI and SC.

 

[subshakerz]

McGrath could also move the ball both ways, still being a threat from that perspective keeping the ball in the corridor.

Did you actually watch McGrath or are you confusing him with Wasim? He wasn't regularly moving the ball.both ways in the corridor. Offcutters yes and occasional outswing with the new ball and very rarely reverse or legcutters.

 

[Migara]

Spicy wicket merchants:
Ambrose
Donald
Steyn
Philander
Garner

Lillee is missing.

 

[vidiq]

Flat wicket merchants top 5:

Marshall
Mcgrath
Bumrah
Imran
Steyn

Honorable mentions to Holding, Bishop, Wasim etc

Spicy wicket merchants:

Ambrose
Donald
Steyn
Philander
Garner




Bowlers like Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath and Bumrah and Holding generally could bowl on anything with similar effect.

Mat Henry, Scott Boland , kagiso rabada

 

[Cricket Bliss]

With Pakistan Umpires : Imran
Without Pakistan Umpires : McGrath

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Honestly you expect McGrath to have more impact on a Faisalabad wicket? Like seriously?

It depends if the umpires are neutral or not.

Edit: Looks like CB beat me to it

 

[Johan]

With Pakistan Umpires : Imran
Without Pakistan Umpires : McGrath

It depends if the umpires are neutral or not.

Edit: Looks like CB beat me to it

Idk, if the neutral umpire is like the one at 1:00, Hard to say who'd get more wickets

 

[Coronis]

Did you actually watch McGrath or are you confusing him with Wasim? He wasn't regularly moving the ball.both ways in the corridor. Offcutters yes and occasional outswing with the new ball and very rarely reverse or legcutters.

iirc kyear relies more on stats than eyetest

 

[subshakerz]

Close one but based on my observations and the key metric being an atg batting lineup, I'll say Glenn. I mean that is his claim to fame ie being the one fast bowler to excel on flat wickets of the 2000s. I believe it's more to do with the other greats retiring at the same time but whatever.

.
McGrath as a flat wicket merchant is unfortunately a CW myth.

 

[Coronis]

.
McGrath as a flat wicket merchant is unfortunately a CW myth.

Likely due to many variations of the perception of a flat wicket.