McGrath vs Imran (on flat pitches)

[BazBall21]

McGrath got bounce on pitches where most bowlers couldn't.

 

[subshakerz]

McGrath got bounce on pitches where most bowlers couldn't.

I think you mean he could extract more bounce than others thanks to height. Which is true.

Aussie pitches even in the 2000s had bounce. They just didn't have lateral movement.

 

[BazBall21]

I think you mean he could extract more bounce than others thanks to height. Which is true.

Aussie pitches even in the 2000s had bounce. They just didn't have lateral movement.

The pitches were often just flat to many bowlers, but to him they weren't because he extracted bounce and relentless accuracy that mortals couldn't replicate.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Idk, if the neutral umpire is like the one at 1:00, Hard to say who'd get more wickets

such decisions from umpires are rare. Imran benefited something from Shakoor Rana.

 

[Prince EWS]

Spicy wicket merchants:

Ambrose
Donald
Steyn
Philander
Garner

For his spicy batting I presume?

 

[subshakerz]

The pitches were often just flat to many bowlers, but to him they weren't because he extracted bounce and relentless accuracy that mortals couldn't replicate.

Ok but the pitches had bounce in the first place. He wasn't the same when he toured Pakistan.

 

[BazBall21]

Ok but the pitches had bounce in the first place. He wasn't the same when he toured Pakistan.

I would take Imran on a totally dead pitch.

 

[subshakerz]

I would take Imran on a totally dead pitch.

Yes. I would take McGrath on Australia also.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

.
McGrath as a flat wicket merchant is unfortunately a CW myth.

Pardon me but in past debates I recall you praising McGrath for precisely that ie excelling in the'flat' era but whatever. You said he struggled in Pakistan but Pakistan does not have a monopoly on flat wickets.

It's funny that all of a sudden now that he's coming up against Imran, Mcgrath's flat wicket exploits are a "myth." You're something else dude.

 

[vidiq]

McGrath got bounce on pitches where most bowlers couldn't.

Similarly no one from the current era can extract so much bounce from the Eden garden pitch like Hazlewood.

 

[kyear2]

I think we should clarify which flat wickets they are. If it's Australia, McGrath can still be successful if there is bounce. If it's SC, you definitely prefer a more pacey bowler.

Besides Pakistan, where was Imran particularly efficient on flat pitches?

I mean, literally his 500th wicket comes to mind where he beat someone with the bounce.

I'd have a few guys over McGrath on a flat wicket too, Holding and Marshall are a given.

Basically.

 

[kyear2]

Perhaps you could talk about McGrath in SL and Pakistan too to make a fair comparison. Or how McGrath struggled against SA at home.

The only caveat you have is a flat wicket with bounce. What if there is no bounce? Are you honestly going with McGrath? I would always prefer a bowler with pure pace and swing in this scenario.

Pure pace and swing is a bonus, but so is control and adaptability.

Did you actually watch McGrath or are you confusing him with Wasim? He wasn't regularly moving the ball.both ways in the corridor. Offcutters yes and occasional outswing with the new ball and very rarely reverse or legcutters.

Nah, never watched Pidge at all.

No he didn't have the ability to swing the ball both ways the way Wasim did, but he was capable of subtle movement in the corridor utilizing seam movement.
He had the ability more than most, to keep batsmen honest and more often than not, quiet.

He wasn't Wasim and he wasn't Steyn, but he was accurate and probing.

iirc kyear relies more on stats than eyetest

Yes, this coming from the bloke who rates Punter and Viv based on final averages.

I rate Punter higher than most based on watching him bat and what he was able to impact the opposition. Change lines, fields, rotations and overall approach. I saw the impact Vivian had on teams even after his initial peak based on how he could hurt them, sometimes even before a ball was bowled.

Yeah, I only look at stats yet I'm the only one besides Peterhrt who recognizes the value of close catching over the stat centric perceived benefits of lower order batting.

The person who doesn't rate players I can't personally watch because I'm not going to be swayed just by stats and need context and the eye test, even if just clips or highlights?

No I didn't recall individual matches and spells as some others here can, but I recall my summation there after.

And why despite the closeness of average and the added batting bonus of Hadlee I still rate McGrath higher, because of the intangibles and nuances of skill and performance. His bounce, accuracy, mental aggression, the impact when he was absent.

But you do you.

 

[kyear2]

It depends if the umpires are neutral or not.

Edit: Looks like CB beat me to it

Basically.

 

[kyear2]

iirc kyear relies more on stats than eyetest

But seriously, aren't you the one that doesn't rely on it at all and consistently criticize me for using it for batsmen.

This post is baffling me.

 

[subshakerz]

Besides Pakistan, where was Imran particularly efficient on flat pitches?




Basically.

I am not talking Imran, I am asking why you don't point out the countries McGrath suffered in or against?

 

[Coronis]

Yes, this coming from the bloke who rates Punter and Viv based on final averages.

Yes mate, that’s why I have Richards above Barrington and Kallis and Sanga. His final average.

But seriously, aren't you the one that doesn't rely on it at all and consistently criticize me for using it for batsmen.

This post is baffling me.

Ability to recognise sarcasm = 0

 

[subshakerz]

Pure pace and swing is a bonus, but so is control and adaptability.

Nah, never watched Pidge at all.

No he didn't have the ability to swing the ball both ways the way Wasim did, but he was capable of subtle movement in the corridor utilizing seam movement.
He had the ability more than most, to keep batsmen honest and more often than not, quiet.

He wasn't Wasim and he wasn't Steyn, but he was accurate and probing.

Ok so you support McGrath on the basis that the flat pitches still have bounce and seam for him to exploit.

Whereas I support Imran and a few others on the basis that they still have the pace and swing to occasionally take the pitch out of the equation.

I think that's our difference.

 

[subshakerz]

But seriously, aren't you the one that doesn't rely on it at all and consistently criticize me for using it for batsmen.

This post is baffling me.

Dude he obviously wasn't serious.