CodeOfWisden
U19 Debutant
Dunno why Australia went with Lee, especially away from home(eng). He just leaked runs.
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Lara's 1999 series vs Aus or Smith's 2019 series vs Eng?
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think there's something to be said re McWarne about having arguably the best ever paceman (or arguably second best if we think Marshall is undisputed) and arguably best ever spinner.
Like I feel the support staff of Dizzy etc are only slightly behind the 3rd and 4th bowlers of a lot of those sides. Though I agree peak Windies pace quartet is still number 1 without a spinner. SA could have used one in a few series. Pak at their best I can also accept being better than McWarne plus others. Though when Waqar was peaking I think it was Mushy and not Saqlain supporting right?
Like I feel the support staff of Dizzy etc are only slightly behind the 3rd and 4th bowlers of a lot of those sides. Though I agree peak Windies pace quartet is still number 1 without a spinner. SA could have used one in a few series. Pak at their best I can also accept being better than McWarne plus others. Though when Waqar was peaking I think it was Mushy and not Saqlain supporting right?
CodeOfWisden
U19 Debutant
Ambrose has as good a shot at being the second greatest pacer ever as Mcgrath.
Combine that with Bishop and Walsh and I think I"ll take them over McWarne and dizzy by a hair's breadth.
Combine that with Bishop and Walsh and I think I"ll take them over McWarne and dizzy by a hair's breadth.
CodeOfWisden
U19 Debutant
Yes, at least Ishant has been doing well recently.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Even though Warne offers something different with spin?
Burgey
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Windies 80s - yes
Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop - about equal
Donald, pollock. - not in a month of Sundays
Steyn, Morkel,Philander - very very close
Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain. - never knew what motivated their performances, or lack thereof.
Ashwin, Jadeja in India - if you have to qualify with a "in....." then they can't be in the argument
Cummins, Haze, Starc, Lyon - support cast to Warne/ McGrath stronger than Starc and Lyon imo
Good discussion this, though.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
I'm ignoring India here but the bold aren't - mostly that they lack the variety (latter day AshJaddu with Bumrah, Ishant, Shami, Yadav has a shout for variety though) - which isn't to say those in bold weren't fantastic, they clearly were. But for most teams (not named India or Lara), McWarne (and the supporting cast) clearly presented a different challenge.
TheJediBrah
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Hmm real mystery. Probably had nothing to do with him averaging 16 with the ball and 37 with the bat in his career before the 2001 Ashes. Weird how they picked him
CodeOfWisden
U19 Debutant
I know this is a bit off topic but weren't we discussing individual performances of batsman in a series.
For me a great performance against Ashwin and Jadeja in India is as good as a performance against McWarne actually its even more difficult coz I don't recall many batsman doing well against them.
So for example Smiths performance in india in 2016 should again be rated higher than Lara's 1999.
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Broad+Jimmy+woakes in English conditions would be up there aswell tbh, all very dangerous is swinging conditions.
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Lara also **** on purple patch Murali during that insane SL away tour, no? Feel that's far more comparable.
CodeOfWisden
U19 Debutant
So just imagine how much he averaged after that to close in at 31 career bowling avg and 20 batting avg.
OverratedSanity
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Broad+ Anderson+ Tremlett/Bresnan/Swann and Ashwin/Jadeja/Shami-Yadav at various points in home conditions was always incredibly potent. You cant just go by the names and say they werent as good as the ATg attacks. At home, they were as tough a challenge as any imo. Different story abroad when compared to McWarne, of course.
CodeOfWisden
U19 Debutant
I didn't list pre 1970 bowling attacks otherwise Trueman and Statham should be right up there as well. Laker was there too
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TheJediBrah
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TheJediBrah
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England 2010-11 attack bowled out of their skins. Good point about not just going with names. Johnson 2013-14 series is regarded by many as the best ever bowling in a series but no one's going to put Mitchell Johnson in any ATG teams
subshakerz
International Coach
Series such as Lara 2001 and Smith 2019 are more about the crazy output than the quality of the attack.
Whereas Lara 99 and Smith 2017 are more about the quality of the attack and the context of the innings.
To me though, Lara 99 was unique. You just don't have batsman play 2 ATG knocks in consecutive tests and then another worldclass knock as the cherry on top. WI would never have drawn that series without Lara.
I don't see how home conditions make a difference. For Lara, that may have meant more pressure actually in the beginning of the series when he was being booed.
Whereas Lara 99 and Smith 2017 are more about the quality of the attack and the context of the innings.
To me though, Lara 99 was unique. You just don't have batsman play 2 ATG knocks in consecutive tests and then another worldclass knock as the cherry on top. WI would never have drawn that series without Lara.
I don't see how home conditions make a difference. For Lara, that may have meant more pressure actually in the beginning of the series when he was being booed.